Hvywt Punchers Who Didnt Stop Many Names.

Holyfield definitely had underrated power. He dropped 3 fighters in a row with solid beards and from single shots: Mercer, Bowe and Tyson. And none of them had been down before (sans Tyson in Tokyo).

But even before his added muscle from 1993 onwards he was starching dudes like Adilson Rodrigues with a single ferocious left hook. And Buster got slapped with a pinpoint accurate straight right.

Foreman was getting tossed around at times too in 1991. Holy can hang and bang!!

 

David Price and DaVarryl Williamson. DaVarryl was practically a meme for his punching power, back in the day, on the inside of things. James Toney and Chris Byrd were well aware of it. Of course, Steward said as Wlad's trainer he thought Peter hit even a little harder than Wlad and we all know he wasn't scoring the list of KO's Wlad was. But again, people get tangled up in results versus one attribute. Guys like Price are so far beyond guys like Evander Holyfield and MM at heavyweight it's absurd.

They're just not nearly as capable of delivering good, flush connects, regularly. If you gave David Price the punching technique, selection, speed of Holyfield? Give him Holyfield's chin so he could wade in and throw his entire body into crisp combos with his own power? They would outlaw boxing. In terms of brute force, stopping power, heaviest thing you can muster on a static target, the most overrated thing, Holy and MM are totally mediocre punchers at heavyweight. They're FANTASTIC at knowing how to maximise what they can deliver. Does anyone think Mike Tyson rates Holyfield's hardest shot against Frank Bruno's? "It's not that he hits so hard, but that he hits so damn often." He doesn't hit very hard. He hits very well. Big, big difference. Wilder scrambles brains on punches that are thrown with all the technical skill of a toddler destroying a sand castle. But anyone who confuses the quality of opponents and how much power he has is bonkers. He clearly carries dynamite into the ring.

 

This. Not only is it overrated but sufficient power is possessed by many. As @Gazelle Punch points out above Ali stopped some great, great fighters and some really dangerous fighters but we are told he was not a stiff puncher. I disagree wholeheartedly. A neat question is where does great power meld with great results.... Louis, Tyson, Lewis... Not many.

 

Strue, he sent Big Daddy flying in the third fight. And dropping Mercer was impressive.

 

Bill Lang(the original Clubber Lang) was known as a power hitter. He always failed to get the knockout in the big fight though. He knocked down Tommy Burns.

 

Correct.

It is finishing ability that counts. Especially true when fighting top 10 competition.

A much better skill. Look at guys like Holmes----how many times did he stop guys once he got them busted up? He was a terrific finsher but not the hardest puncher. But he didn't let guys of the hook.

 

I had a glance at Yvon “The Fighting Fishermans” record I don’t see many (any?) name stoppages to his credit? Archie Moore said he hit harder than Marciano and learnt he fought Floyd Patterson. Inactive (I think) poster @bigjake spoke to Yvon actually on the phone and had some interesting stuff to say about him in his posts.

 

With the 10-9 system the value of knockdowns is very high even if a fighter lacks finishing ability.

 

I found this an intriguing topic and decided to do research on the 1940's trio, plus some additions. "Ever rated victim"--a fighter not rated when KO'd but rated earlier or later.
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Elmer Ray--136 fights, (98-23-12) (72 KO's)
Best KO------Lee Savold, KO 2
Ever rated victims--Sid Peaks, Colion Chaney, Kid Riviera
Fighters rated when KO'd--none
Evaluation--due to points wins (Obie Walker, LeRoy Haynes, Willie Reddish, Otis Thomas, Jersey Joe Walcott, Ezzard Charles) I rate Ray the best fighter of the six I will go over. Scrutinizing his record, he does seem a bit overrated as a fighter, and very overrated as a puncher. His only top level KO is Savold. The other three ever rated victims were fringe contenders. Ray's record is surprisingly padded with pushovers, but he did come through against Walcott and Charles at least once each for decisions)

Curtis Sheppard--85 fights (52-33) (34 KO's)
Best KO-----Joey Maxim, KO 1
Ever rated victims--Johnny Flynn, Eddie Blunt, Big Boy Brown, Buddy Walker, Tony Shucco,
Al Hart
Fighters rated when KO'd--none
Evaluation--has tremendous rep as a puncher off what opponents said. And has possibly the single most impressive KO. Maxim was apparently out of the ratings when KO'd by Sheppard, but had been rated and would be again for years, fought a ton of punchers, and this is the only time he was stopped. Otherwise, a good but not outstanding punching record)

Tommy Gomez--89 fights (78-9-2) (67 KO's)
Best KO-----Phil Muscato KO 1
Ever rated victims--Tony Musto, Buddy Knox, Freddie Schott, Buddy Scott, Gunnar Barlund
Fighters rated when KO'd--none
Evaluation--by far the most impressive stat record. Shows how misleading that is. Best KO was fringe contender Muscato. Record achieved in boondocks against second-raters. Came to earth quick when matched with better men. I would judge him the least impressive puncher of these six. But give him this. The 5' 10" 185 lb. Gomez stopped the 6' 11" and 295 lb. Seamus Trophy winner Ben Moroz.

End of part one

 

I know he was a LHW, but I wanted to introduce Slapsie Maxie Rosenbloom to this thread. I just like his nickname.

 

Part 2

Lem Franklin--48 fights (32-13-1) (28 KO's)
Best KO-----Jimmy Bivins, KO 9
Ever rated victims--Lee Savold, Willie Reddish, Eddie Blunt, Curtis Sheppard, Abe Simon, Colion Chaney
Fighters rated when KO'd--Simon #5 at heavyweight (Bivins #3 at light-heavyweight)
Evaluation--a strong case as the biggest puncher of this group. Looked a formidable contender, but completely fell apart, losing 8 of final 10, seven by KO's. Off record, seems a man with a big punch but no defense and a questionable chin. How the short career and complete collapse plays out is I guess for each to judge)

Turkey Thompson--71 fights (54-15-2) (39 KO's)
Best KO-----Elmer Ray, KO 1
Ever rated victims--Junior Munsell, Buddy Knox, Pat Valentino, Gus Dorazio, Eddie Blunt, Kid Riviera, Lee Murray, Al Hart
Fighters rated when KO'd--Junior Munsell at #10
Evaluation--only 5' 8" and around 200 lbs., has an impressive record, including blowing out Ray in one with Ray then going on a 50 bout win steak which got him to #1 contender status. While only fringe contender Munsell was rated when fought, Ray and Valentino went on to be highly rated. Dropped Pastor six times in first round, but let him off the hook. If he had stopped Pastor, or the ref stopped the fight, Thompson would undoubtedly have a much bigger punching rep)

Lee Savold--155 fights (98-40-3) (72 KO's)
Best KO-----Lou Nova, KO 2 (also TKO 8)
Ever rated victims--Ford Smith, Tom Keneally, Maurice Strictland, Arne Andesson, Bob Nestell, Lou Brooks, Buddy Knox, Johnny Flynn, Lem Franklin, Eddie Blunt, Buddy Walker, Bruce Woodcock
Fighters rated when KO'd--Maurice Strickland, Lou Nova, Bruce Woodcock (could be more, I didn't go through the ratings for all the fringe contenders like Nestell and Brooks)
Evaluation--Savold lost consistently to the top tier fighters he fought--Conn, Bivins, Mauriello, Ray, Louis, Marciano, but was a contender for a long time and KO'ing name fighters from the mid-1930's to 1950. If longevity and volume is the criteria, Savold would be number one)

My vote would be for Thompson as the top puncher.

 

On their way to the title they had excellent trainers, who they occasionally listened and learned from, which is why both were able to achieve the success they did. But, once the success came they weren't wiling to follow any instructions and also weren't willing to continue improving their skill-set, which is vital in any sport, but especially a sport as competitive as boxing.

Wilder had Breland and Russ Anber, who made an excellent team. When Anber left Wilder's conditioning wasn't the same and he also lost an excellent cornerman. After the first Fury fight Wilder took control of his training camp from Breland and everybody seen the result.

Baer had Mike Cantwell, who was one of the best trainers around and had Baer on the best run of his career. When Cantwell took over Baer was always in proper shape and had an excellent cornerman. After Cantwell left Baer lost the title, was rarely in good shape, and he wasn't half as capable as he once was.

 

Top competition usually comes prepared. If they know their opponent is a big puncher they usually will come prepared to neutralize that power or knock their opponent out first.

Here is a piece discussing the upcoming fight between Quarry and Shavers and not only is Quarry unimpressed with Shaver's reputation as a puncher, but predicts he'll be knocking out Shavers.

First there was the proposed $1 million match with George Foreman. Then it was to be Venezuelan Jose Luis Garcia. After that, the name of Jimmy Ellis was mentioned as an opponent for Jerry Quarry.

Foreman said "No, Garcia got knocked out in a tuneup, and Ellis wasn't ready." So matchmaker Teddy Brenner has come up with Earnie Shavers to fight Quarry in a 12-round bout at Madison Square Garden on June 18.

The winner of this so-called "elimination" bout will get the opportunity to scream and yell for a shot at the title.

That's all.

Foreman, who became champion last Jan. 22 with a second round knockout over Joe Frazier, hasn't heard from since.

To stay sharp and earn some money Quarry will stick his chin on the line against Shavers, a powerful puncher who has a 44-2-0 record with 43 knockouts.

"Earnie Shavers is the most murderous puncher in the game today said his manager Don king. "You think Nixon's got problems with Watergate. Well Jerry Quarry is in a whole mess of trouble with Shavers."

The 28-year-old Quarry, who has traded punches with the best heavyweights around didn't seem impressed with King's spiel.

"I'll be giving the best I have." said Quarry, ranked No. 5 in the world. "Just like I always do. And that's enough to win the title George Foreman is sitting up there on cloud nine and we got to get him down. Maybe this fight will do it.

"Everybody talks about Shaver bein' such a great puncher, well I've been in there with hitters before. I've got a chin and if he thinks when he hits it I'm gonna drop, he's crazy."

"When it comes down to exchanging punches, I'll be standing and he won't. That's the big difference between him and me."

Quarry is, indeed, the more experienced of the two. While his record reads 45-6-4 with 26 knockouts, he has fought and lost to Frazier, Ellis and Muhammad Ali twice. His fights with Frazier and Ellis were for the title.

Shavers, 27, plans to do all his talking with his fists. "I'm very grateful to get this shot against Quarry. I've been waiting for this for three and a half years and I plan to make the most of it" was all the Cleveland boxer had to say.
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Although Foreman wasn't included on the list his power also tended to get neutralized against the wrong type of opponent.

Here is a piece with Jimmy Young going into the Foreman fight. He acknowledges that Foreman has great power, but is also confident that it won't be enough for Foreman to beat him. Foreman also gives his opinion on what will happen in the fight.

Jimmy Young, who came surprisingly close to defeating the great Muhammad Ali, is not after George Foreman, the friendly awesome executioner. And he believes it ill be his shinning hour.

"I'm looking forward to stopping him," said the soft-punching Young of his upcoming slugfest with Foreman, March 17, in San Juan, Puerto Rico. "I see myself as the winner. I can't figure out how this guy is going to beat me. I'm not taking this fight lightly, but I really see this as being an easy fight."

Young's assertion sounds absurd. Foreman, the Jolly Black Giant from Houston rarely lets a fight go more than four rounds.

He has knocked Ken Norton out in two rounds, knocked Ron Lyle out in five and Joe Frazier out in two and five in separate fights. He has lost only to the magnificent Ali in 45 professional fights.

So why should Jimmy Young of Philadelphia, whose won-lost-tied record is 22-5-2, seriously believe he has a chance with Foreman?

Well, it is very significant that Foreman's only loss was to Ali, the boxing wizard. Young, 28, is a tall (6-foot-2), thoughtful heavyweight with very quick actions and very quick hands, much like Ali, making him very hard to hit.

In addition, the normally 206-pounder's reach is nearly as long as Ali's and he is quick on his feet. Using similar tools, Ali baffled and eventually tired out the strong man. That's what Young intends to do.

"I can see everything he's about to do," said Young. "He move like a robot pushed by buttons. If you move from side to side against him, he has a hard time hitting you."

"And he's a sucker for a right hand. That's what stopped him in Zaire."

But two top heavyweights who have fought both Foreman and Young disagree.

The Champion, Ali, sees Foreman winning in the 11th or 12th round.

"Foreman should stop him the first time he can land three or four good combinations," said the champ. "He will be hard for Foreman to hit, but Foreman will keep chasing him."

That strategy caused Foreman's downfall to Ali, but the champion said Foreman's chasing will be different in San Juan. "He won't be throwing punches while he is chasing," said Ali, making reference to the new habits Foreman has developed under his new trainer, Gil Clancy.

"He threw punches while he was after me, but he won't do that with Young. He will chase Young and catch him. Foreman should win in the 11th or 12 round."

Ron Lyle, who brought Foreman to the canvas twice with a right-handed attack, also picked Foreman to win.

"Young is not going to present that much of a problem," said Lyle. "Young's quickness will throw Foreman off for a while. But Foreman will get him in a corner where he has good leverage."

Lyle said Young could have beaten Foreman before he teamed up with Clancy, but now "since he's been with Clancy, they have taught him to pace himself."

But, retorts Young, the very fact that neither Ali or Lyle predicted an early knock-out for Foreman is in Young's favor.

Young correctly pointed out that Foreman, 29, has tired badly in the very few fights in which he has had to go over five rounds.

"After seven rounds of the fight, you will be able to tell who will win," predicted Young. "If I am in good shape after the seventh round, I will win the fight and I hope by a knockout."

A knockout is exactly what is on Foreman's mind. The ex-champion has stooped 42 of the 45 fighters he has beaten and the 6-foot-3 ex-champ, who normally weights 225, plans to make Young another notch on his list of stretched out duelists.

"If he comes to me I'll break his neck," Foreman stated flatly. "If he runs I will catch him and break his neck."

"The big question is how long he can stay out of danger in the ring with me? Another big question is how long can he last, not how many times he can hit me? When I fight a guy the crowd applauds him on the number of rounds he can last with me."
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