HW evolution debate master thread

Golovkin and Kovalev are highly comparable as well, but I know who id expect to have more success at CW.

The reality is, Rocky could have fought his entire career within the CW limit. Stylistically an aggressive come forward fighter is not going to beat a much bigger man.

Ali can box from range, he's quick enough to do that and he's fought 15 rounds lots of times, even when past his best so we know he has the conditioning to do it.

Marciano had to take punches to land punches. He fought conservative once in his entire career against Joe Louis and once he tasted his power and could handle it, he bore forward. Marciano will not be able to take a solid punch off Joshua. He'll get sparked out.

Bigger isn't always better and it doesn't determine the result of the fight. Styles will always determine the result of the fight for me.

Ali had the right style to succeed today, Rocky also has the right style to succeed.

Just that one will be better suited to the lower divisions.

 

I've been laughed at for mentioning these super heavyweights but the evidence is there,Lennox Lewis,Wlad,Vitali and now AJ and I'll have to include Wilder have shown that their size does make a difference

 

Sure its more global because the world has been made alot 'smaller' through IT and communication infrastructure. But your argument is flawed as I would argue it is still being dominated by the same continents and nations - Europe and South America. Italy, Brazil, Germany and Argentina in particular. If you include England in the EU continent, there has never been a team outside of the EU or SA to make the worldcup final and only once (in 2002 - Turkey v South Korea) have teams outside of these continents played off for 3rd/4th place.

Back to boxing though hard to compare. Sure they are bigger but I couldn't say for sure better. Maybe we can get a cognitive supercomputer to match Lewis vs Ali for example.

 

I wasnt talking about continents I was talking about countries. I guess you missed the part where I said Uruguay, Hungary, England are no longer favorites to win a world cup, back in the day they were. There are so many more elite players and teams today than there were in the 1950's.

African nations today are more competent. Chile and Colombia are no longer fodder.

 

The talent pool is definitely worse now. The biggest athletes have moved to different sports.

 

It's not just the size, it's the fact that the elite men know how to use it.

 

If Ali was feather fisted he'd have lost to them as well, otherwise you become a Chris Byrd.

 

ali was a super hw in his day.

 

They are also Chinese my Peruvian brother

 

Nice discussion going there andrewa1.
But for the life of me, you seems to have fetish for the big guys especially to do with old and modern big guy comparison.
What's up with that dude

 

I will post a longer replay after work. Great thread by the way!

Sport evolves on the fly. Hughie and Parker are going at it. They train on winning we dont really know what we Will get untill fightnight.

But what if both Hughie and Parker were open with their gameplans? Then talent would be more of the deciding factor. Not silly preperations And suprises...

With that said. Time regulates talent to shine in the end eitherway.

The same goes with rumble in the jungle. Im 100 percent sure Foreman would have won if both fighters knew what they were gonna do and if all other surronding circumstances were total fare.

Optimal size nowadays seems to be somewhere between Joshua and Fury. 6"6-6"8... The matador and bull.

In Alis days somewhere between him and Foreman 6"2-6"3... The matador and bull of the days.

 

As others have mentioned another argument against this is the skill element. While I agree that boxers now at the elite level are better athletes and in better condition than the past, that doesn't make you more skilled. Look at Jirov vs Toney, who was in better condition, but who won? Wlad I'm sure was in better shape even at his advanced age than Fury, but he lost. Countless examples of the inferior athlete losing to the more skilled fighter.

The skill element means you can't compare it to other sports where physical conditioning, strength etc is far more important than skill level, such as athletics.