HW picture from 1906-1909

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Feb 21, 2013.


  1. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    I think everyone knew Johnson-Hart was obviously a sham. Everyone knew Johnson was the best around at the time. I mean by the 'criteria' of the judging, Chavez would have beat Whitaker and maybe Baldomir would have got the decision over Mayweather. Let's remember this is the same society that accepted the color line and saw a law drew specifically to imprison a black champion.
     
  2. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    As much as it pains me to write, Jeffries was the best at the time. And... No, it wasnt a sham just a different set of standards of achievement. Jack knew the rules and expectation for victory when he signed for the fight. According to all accounts, neither Hart (an apparent blowhard wild swinger from the sticks) nor Johnson were in the same league as Jeffries.
     
  3. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    You mean the same newspaper reports that refered to Johnson as 'The ****', slightly biased perhaps?

    The reports also said Johnson made Hart often look like an amateur.
     
  4. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    This :good
     
  5. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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  6. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I dont understand the pea-Chavez comparison. They fought knowing clean effective punching was the main criteria. Hart-Johnson did not.
     
  7. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Because under that ruleset Pea would lose. But I doubt Hart pushed Johnson as close as Chavez pushed Pea. How many times do you hear a winner making the loser 'look like an amateur'.

    Hart got his face beat to a pulp where as Johnson didn't have a mark on him. And the crowd booed the decision.

    We'll never know for sure, but it sounds like a clear robbery.

    Anyway was the referees bias to aggression in the contract or just pre-fight instructions?
     
  8. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    By no means all of the papers were biased against Johnson, and the fight did legitimately divide opinion.

    Without film, we have to consider that Hart might have deserved the decision under the ruleset of the day.
     
  9. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Sounds reasonable.
     
  10. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Here are some excerpts from a somewhat contradictory account, at times praising Johnson as the master, at others saying Hart was the boss... The only constant is that neither appeared to observers to be in the league with Jeffries.

    Salt Lake Telegram 3/29/05

    "The showing of both white and black was miserable and far from championship for. Both fought like novices.

    Johnson laded on Hart at will, but his blows lacked the necessary "steam". Hart bored in time and again on Johnson and won on points because he carried the fight to the black. Neither man, however, seemed to have the punch that they both have shown they possessed in previous ring battles.

    There was but one real blow landed in the whole journey last night. This was in the eleventh round when Hart landed a vicious right swing flush on Johnson's jaw. The blow was clean and uncounted and landed full. It staggered the black for a moment, but there was not enough force in it to floor him.

    Johnson landed repeatedly and managed to cut up Hart to a great extent but it was only superficial damage. He had the white covered with blood, but it was like a school boy contest. It looked bloody, but a little water removed all the damage.

    Johnson's vaunted cleverness was exhibited. He struck where he wished and at will, but like Jim Corbett to whom in boxing science he is likened, he lacks the requisite punch.
    Referee Greggains after the fight had but little to say. "I gave Hart the decision because he did all the leading - which wasn't much at all. If he hadn't done this, I would have declared the fight 'NO CONTEST'"
     
  11. mattdonnellon

    mattdonnellon Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    POSTING WITHOUT COMMENT....
    Decatur Daily Review March 30, 1905

    "ANOTHER FAKER

    SanFrancisco, March 30. This city
    has sustained its reputation as the
    place of weird prize fights, ***** decisions and a fleeced public, Jack
    Johnson, a big colored fighter, Tuesday night
    lost to Marvin Hart, a crude but game fighter, through tlie decision
    of Alex Greggains.
    Johnson hit the clean business-like blows,
    was unpunished, and acted as do all champions—he
    realizes what a world there was at stake. Hart
    on the other hand staggered through the long bout,
    punished so that he resembled the wall of an abatoir.
    Johnson, on account of his color, had
    few friends in the partisan crowd. Hart had all the sympathy.
    He needed if and something more, to win.
    If there was a conspiracy to make
    Hart a widely advertised chopping
    block for Champion James J. Jeffrirs
    it worked to a successful Issue."
     
  12. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Oregonian (Portland) March 29.


    San Francisco (Staff Correspondence)


    "Jeffries would beat both of them as easy as water runs down hill...

    Of the fight there is little to tell. Johnson in the first two rounds looked like an easy winner. He thought he had an easy mark in Hart, and thought he could, as he has always in his fights, loop a log and win on points. There was a surprise in store for the negro and the for the crowd also. For Hart began wading into the big piece of dark meat in front of him.

    After Hart started he never let up. Throughout the whole () rounds he was on top of Johnson. First he would poke his left into Johnson's face and then he would whip his right to the stomach. Only once or twice did Johnson assume the aggressive. When he did he would smother Hart with wallops and jabs.

    But it never lasted long. Hart, who is clumsily clever, would cover up and get out of trouble. Hart is the first fighter that this negro champion has met. He simply laid on top of him and fought him every second of the three minute rounds. "
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Cheers for the reports guys.

    I used to see Johnson as uncrowned champ but now I can appreciate he was more of a top contender.