HW resume against opponents who have, at one time or another, featured in the top 10.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Aug 23, 2011.


Page 7 of 11
  1. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,685
    178
    Dec 27, 2006
    To my knowledge there is no site that has that information. I have a database that has all this and it took me years to get this far. I just up-dated the Heavyweights, as I just received November's issue, and I have every Heavyweight that was ever rated in the top 10 since it started in 1925. I have all the other weight classes up to the beginning of 1998.

    Just to let you know, I have 391 Heavyweights that were ever rated by Ring Magazine since it started in 1925.
     
    hhascup, Sep 13, 2011
    hhascup, Sep 13, 2011
    #91
  2. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    79,957
    20,544
    Sep 15, 2009
    Ok there aren't any official rankings it was all down to public demand and promoter's desire.

    A poster on here called matt d has studied the hw scene from 1982 onwards and he has 20 years worth of top 10 rankings.

    I use his rankings as gospel.
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 13, 2011
    lufcrazy, Sep 13, 2011
    #92
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    79,957
    20,544
    Sep 15, 2009
    updated to include archie moore and any corrections suggested.
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 13, 2011
    lufcrazy, Sep 13, 2011
    #93
  4. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,685
    178
    Dec 27, 2006
    I have 86 years of heavyweights ratings, and 71 years, up to 1996. for all the rest.
     
    hhascup, Sep 13, 2011
    hhascup, Sep 13, 2011
    #94
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    79,957
    20,544
    Sep 15, 2009

    if you ever wish to email your database I'd be very pleased :)
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 13, 2011
    lufcrazy, Sep 13, 2011
    #95
  6. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,986
    1,261
    Sep 5, 2011
    On Moore--this is a tough one because he had such a long career, but what about

    Curtis Sheppard, Alberto Lovell, and Roger Rischer
     
    edward morbius, Sep 13, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 13, 2011
    #96
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    79,957
    20,544
    Sep 15, 2009
    With moore, I decided I was only including fights where both men weighed above 175 as they're the fights i'd include for hw consideration (when fitz was a heavy he was above the mw limit so my general rule can still apply)

    It was hard checking because he thought from the 30's through to the 60's so it involved a lot of back and forth checking. I seem to recall lovell and rischer as guys I considered to be in hw fights with moore but I couldn't find them in the rankings I checked.
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 13, 2011
    lufcrazy, Sep 13, 2011
    #97
  8. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,986
    1,261
    Sep 5, 2011
    Okay--you are doing a great job on a very difficult task. I did not understand about Moore having to weigh over 175.

    Alberto Lovell--ranked #4 in yearly rankings in 1937--Moore weighed 175 when he ko'd him in 1951

    Curtis Sheppard--ranked several times in yearly rankings in the 1940's. Moore weighed less than 175 when he fought him.

    Roger Rischer--was ranked #8 in yearly rankings in 1964. Moore weighed 199 when he defeated Rischer, who weighed 184, in 1957.
     
    edward morbius, Sep 13, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 13, 2011
    #98
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    79,957
    20,544
    Sep 15, 2009
    Cheers.

    The reason being i'm just looking purely from the hw point of view and as far as i'm concerned, back then, unless it was specifically a hw title fight, guys weighing that close to the lhw limit are just fighting above the limit and not in the next division.

    Otherwise people get double credit for victories as a hw and a lhw etc.

    If it was a title fight and he came in less than 175 i'd count that, but with no title on the line it's just a lhw fight in my books.
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 13, 2011
    lufcrazy, Sep 13, 2011
    #99
  10. young griffo

    young griffo Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,376
    6,899
    May 18, 2006
    Man, I really like boxing but some of you guys really,really,really like boxing.

    To put the time and effort to research and count all these champions and their opponents records and rankings is just sensational.

    An interesting and informative read and well worth the effort. :clap:
     
    young griffo, Sep 14, 2011
    young griffo, Sep 14, 2011
    #100
  11. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,986
    1,261
    Sep 5, 2011
    I want to second Young Griffo.

    Thanks for all the tremendous research.


    *And you also, hhascup, if you read this.
     
    edward morbius, Sep 14, 2011
    edward morbius, Sep 14, 2011
    #101
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    79,957
    20,544
    Sep 15, 2009
    I do love boxing. This took a long long time but i'm glad I did do it and I don't intend it to say anything specific about any boxers. It's just a data reference really.

    But yeah boxing and stats are my two passions so any excuse to combine them will do me haha.

    I've done something very similar with every hof fighter of the last 30 years and I will put that online also very shortly.
     
    lufcrazy, Sep 14, 2011
    lufcrazy, Sep 14, 2011
    #102
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    79,957
    20,544
    Sep 15, 2009
    updated to include a breakdown of Jackson's resume.

    Not sure how accurate my breakdowns are pre tunney but it's the best I can come up with.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 1, 2011
    lufcrazy, Oct 1, 2011
    #103
  14. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    79,957
    20,544
    Sep 15, 2009
    updated again with bivins.

    eventually I'm going to do a "meaningful resume" for each of the HW greats, that being all the "notable" opponents they have beaten plus any prime losses (won't be including losses when they're green nor past prime because they don't detract from a fighters resume IMO)

    So this thread is really just the starting point of my research.
     
    lufcrazy, Oct 1, 2011
    lufcrazy, Oct 1, 2011
    #104
  15. hhascup

    hhascup Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,685
    178
    Dec 27, 2006
    To be honest with you, it really isn't that hard to do this if your just counting the end of the year ratings. It's much harder if your counting everyone who was ever rated in the monthly Top 10 ratings by Ring Magazine and much, much harder if your just counting them when they were rated.

    I have been doing this research for several years now and I still have a ways to go. I have every Heavyweigt that was ever rated in the top 10 from 1925 to the present. I have all the rest of the weight classes up to the mid-1990's. I listed the boxer, the weight classes the boxer fought, the 1st and last month they were rated, the number of months they were rated and there highest rating.

    Here's an example:

    The rating behind the names indicate the last monthly rating before the fight:

    Muhammad Ali’s top 10 rated opponents

    1962
    Archie Moore - # 5

    1963
    Doug Jones - # 3
    Henry Cooper - # 9

    1964
    Sonny Liston - World Heavyweight Champion

    1965
    Sonny Liston - # 1
    Floyd Patterson - # 1

    1966
    George Chuvalo - # 9
    Henry Cooper - # 4
    Karl Mildenberger - # 3
    Cleveland Williams - # 3

    1967
    Ernie Terell - # 1
    Zora Folley - # 2

    1970
    Jerry Quarry - # 1
    Oscar Bonavena - # 3

    1971
    Joe Frazier - World Heavyweight Champion - LOSS
    Jimmy Ellis - # 7

    1972
    Mac Foster - # 6
    Jerry Quarry - # 2
    Floyd Patterson - # 3
    Bob Foster - World Light-Heavyweight Champion

    1973
    Joe Bugner - # 8
    Ken Norton - # 9 - LOSS
    Ken Norton - # 2

    1974
    Joe Frazier - # 1
    George Foreman - World Heavyweight Champion

    1975
    Chuck Wepner - # 9
    Ron Lyle - # 8
    Joe Bugner - # 4
    Joe Frazier - # 2

    1976
    Jimmy Young - # 3
    Ken Norton - # 2

    1977
    Ernie Shavers - # 5

    1978
    Leon Spinks - # 9 - LOSS
    Leon Spinks - World Heavyweight Champion

    1980
    Larry Holmes - Wolrd Heavyweight Champion - LOSS

    1981
    Trevor Berbick - # 7 - LOSS

    Overall record: 56-5
    Record vs. top 10 rated opponents (incl. Light-Heavyweight Champion): 31-5






    Joe Louis' top 10 rated opponents
    1934
    Lee Rampage - # 10

    1935
    Patsy Perroni - # 6
    Natie Brown - # 10
    Primo Carnera - # 4
    King Levinsky - # 10
    Max Baer - # 1

    1936
    Charley Retzlaff - # 4
    Max Schmeling - # 2 - LOSS
    Jack Sharkey - # 4
    Al Ettore - # 3
    James Braddock - World Champion
    Tommy Farr - # 3

    1938
    Nathan Mann - # 3
    Max Schmeling - # 1

    1939
    John Henry Lewis - World Champion at Light-Heavyweight
    Tony Galento - # 3
    Bob Pastor - # 2

    1940
    Johnny Paychek - # 5
    Arturo Godoy (2) - # 1

    1941
    Red Burman - # 4
    Buddy Baer - # 5
    Billy Conn - World Champion at Light-Heavyweight
    Lou Nova - # 1

    1942
    Buddy Baer - # 4
    Abe Simon - # 6

    1946
    Billy Conn - # 1
    Tami Mauriello - # 1

    1947
    Jersey Joe Walcott - # 1

    1948
    Jersey Joe Walcott - # 1

    1950
    Ezzard Charles - World Champion - LOSS

    1951
    Lee Savold - # 4
    Cesar Brion - # 8
    Rocky Marciano - # 3 - LOSS

    Overall record vs. top 10 opposition (incl. 2 light-heavyweight champs): 30-3
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2020
    hhascup, Oct 1, 2011
    hhascup, Oct 1, 2011
    #105
Page 7 of 11