I’m positive Holyfield would’ve beaten Tyson in 91

Definitely not a prime Tyson, but if that term irks you then I don't know what to tell you. The decline in Tyson's skills were evident. Holyfield on the other hand adapted better than Tyson with age.

 

I don't think Holyfield always had Tyson's number by any means .. based on how they match up it would take the prime Tyson , trained and focused to defeat him but I certainly feel the Tyson that fought Thomas, Briggs, Holmes, Tubbs, Tucker and Spinks would have beaten Evander .. when they met, although Evander was older and Mike was still very dangerous as far as speed and power goes he was no where nearly as well trained, as focused or as mentally tough which is why he unravelled ..

 

I would take Holyfield from 1989 onwards to beat Tyson.

 

Good post. Saying Holyfield always had Tyson's number is a flawed argument because these are fighters and in a boxing ring - anything can happen. Heavyweights at that and one of them had fight ending power and can turn things around with one shot.

 

The hard truth is that in the Bruno rematch there are no real signs of declining skills. It's only one fight, yes, but he looks absolutely terrific. His stamina might well have declined, but that's hard to know for sure.

In the first Holy fight he doesn't seem optimally prepared or focussed. He's a bit too much going through the motions, probably expecting Holy to go relatively easy. In the second it's clear he's as well prepared as can be. He looks really sharp, but Holy just has his number.

Doesn't matter when they'd fought, Holy would have won and you Tyson fans would have come with your excuses anyhow. I'll leave this ol' discussion with that.

 

Haha, us Tyson fans huh! What about you Holyfield fans and Tyson haters?

I'm being honest here, Tyson looked good against Bruno because Bruno was cashing out. And there were signs of declining skills: Tyson was square and lunged in with hooks, Holyfield actually caught Tyson doing this and dropped him, 6th round, first fight; Bruno tied Tyson up with no inside work, which had been evident after Rooney was fired but not this bad; Tyson still had some speed and power but his technique wasn't as smooth, he looked a bit robotic in there.

Bowe caught on to this and scoffed at claims that Tyson was back...in Boxing Monthly, the UK magazine.

I agree with the rest of your post except that Holyfield had Tyson's number. Your mind will never be changed and neither will mine.

 

First I'd like to respond to your Holyfield claims. Holyfield is a 4-time heavyweight champion, despite having a 4th title practically handed to him after he lost same title to Lennox Lewis in his previous fight. But it does go down in the books as 4 titles. I'm assuming your claim that he should've been a 5-time champion based on his close loss to Nikolai Valuev?! However, he should've lost the first bout with Ruiz, did lose the 2nd bout with Ruiz and drew in their 3rd bout, which I though Holyfield edged.

Was Holyfield not in his prime against Michael Moorer when he lost for the 2nd time in his career just months after regaining the titles from Bowe? I'll admit he didn't fight well and chalk it up to steroid abuse. And if you say all his losses besides Bowe were past prime, then so were Tyson's.

Here we go...

Mike Tyson's record against HOF fighters: 2-3. All 3 losses were after his prison stint, past prime.

Mike Tyson: Youngest to win the heavyweight title at 20 years old. Youngest to unify 2 title belts at 20 years old. Youngest Undisputed Champion and unify all 3 belts at 21 years old. ONLY heavyweight to unify all 3 belts, to this day.

Mike Tyson made 9 successful defenses of the championship, at the time 3rd or 4th most in heavyweight history. Cleaned out the division and beat every contender who claimed the #1, #2 or #3 ranking under the title organization.

Mike Tyson was ranked #1 in The Ring magazine, KO magazine, Boxing Illustrated magazine etc. Pound 4 Pound rankings for 3 years: 1987, 1988 and 1989. No other heavyweight since has been ranked higher than #3, and not as long as 3 years in a row.

Mike Tyson, Muhammad Ali and George Foreman are the only heavyweights to regain the title 10 years after first winning it.

Mike Tyson's win/loss record: 50-6(44 KO's) with an 89.3 winning percentage.
Mike Tyson's opponent's win/loss record: 1334-213-17 with an 85.5 winning percentage.
Add these percentages together: 87.3%

I'll be back...

 

Where I differ in in the stylistic matchups .. Bruno did not have Evander's speed or ability to absorb punishment .. Bruno froze up and Tyson pummeled him and looked terrific that fight ... Evander is a totally different match up , one that would expose Tyson's lack of second gear at that point ins career ..

 

Who said Holyfield beat Lewis 2? You were right.

Holyfield put that jab on him, just for a joke. Easy as you please. Holyfield jabbed him to hell.

Jab: Holyfield > Lewis.. every day.. all the time

 

Mike was a great, great fighter. But Holy was at times freekily great. He truly was an amazing warrior and seemed to LOVE when he was an underdog.

His performances against Lewis, despite the losses, were pretty amazing considering both his age and wear.

 

You've convinced me for the 10th time that you're a pre teen. Pat yourself on the back.

 

Lesser opponents that Holyfield wouldn't have gone through. Holyfield struggled with 42 year old Foreman, an even older and fatter Holmes than the one Tyson demolished in 4 rounds, almost got KO'd to Bert Cooper, lost his 2nd belt to Michael Moorer, won his 3rd championship from the very man you claim isn't any good then got handed a belt he previously lost. Bowe was the only good opponent Holyfield ****in faced, a Bowe who won a razor thin decision against KO in 2 rounds Tyson victim Tony Tubbs.

We can do this all night!

Sugar Ray Leonard wasn't elite? Thomas Hearns wasn't elite? Julio Cesar Chavez wasn't elite? Azumah Nelson wasn't elite? Michael Nunn wasn't elite? I could go on, but I won't.

Thought we were talking heavyweight accomplishments. Holyfield did great in what boxing calls it's worst division. Anyways, Holyfield didn't earn a title, he won a paper title handed to him after losing it in the ring in his previous fight. He wasn't the heavyweight champion and perceived #1 heavyweight. That was Lennox Lewis.

You call it a padded record, I call it keeping busy and exposure. Also, Holyfield fought Qawi in his 12th pro fight on July 12, 1986.
Tyson faced Jesse Ferguson in his 18th pro fight on February 16, 1986. He fought James Tillis in his 20th fight on May 3, 1986. He fought Mitch Green in his 21st fight on May 20, 1986. He fought Marvis Frazier on July 26, 1986. Then Ribalta, Ratliff and Berbick - all in 1986!! These were all world class opponents.

Tyson has A LOT more on Holyfield than being the youngest champion. Holyfield never unified winning all 3 belts. He came close. Also, Holyfield never made more than 3 successful defenses at a time. He never cleaned out his division like Tyson did either. Tyson's "lesser" opponents gave Holyfield's "better" opponents hell. I named them above.

Your turn.