I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by dempsey1234, Dec 31, 2012.



  1. ezzard_charles

    ezzard_charles Anonymous Full Member

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    Hey Dempsey, I've seen this contract before, the guy who made it seems like he has the boxers interests at heart. Here is a video where he explains how it came about
     
  2. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Now that contract makes sense, I know the guy well. He managed a really good prospect, who was undefeated in 16 fights, when this manager came on board, since then under this managers watch, he won 5 of fights and lost 10 he is now retired. Under his watch the guy won 5 fights and lost 10. He had another kid, he was undefeated when this manager got a hold of him, in 8 fights, this manager put him in 3 fights, vs 15-0, 10-0 and 15-0-1, the kid lost 2 out of the 3 fights. He managed another guy who went 0-2 with him. Do you see what I am getting at, when I saw that contract I couldnt believe it. There is a saying when something looks so good that you cant pass it up, pass it up. This manager goes after the money, and doesnt seem to consider the fighter. The fighters names are Jerry Belmontes, Oscar Mojica and James Delarosa.
    The contract was as I described an "opponent" contract.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2017
  3. Makingweight

    Makingweight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Long time fellas,
    Interesting this past weekend in the UK,David Price stopped again for what should be the last time.A fighter with nowhere to go now for a HW it could and should of been so different at least financially.The HW division has always been a law unto itself in boxing history the richest prize in sport.

    When Price was matched first time with Tony Thompson it was a jump in levels that Price wasn't prepared for and actually never would be,it's been mentioned in this thread.I have read on this forum and others about the obvious flaws in his game chin and stamina the main ones.Mentality for me just as important and really knowing your fighters realistic level.

    When Price lost first time to TT he came on a UK TV show called Ringside.In the decades I have watched this sport I have never seen a fighter as dejected and looking and sounding as mentally shot as he did.He said he wanted to go straight back in with TT,what he said and what he was thinking imo two different things he was saying what he thought people wanted to hear.His manager Maloney,made the rematch he should of vetoed it,bad call for you gamblers out there TT was 7-1 the first fight and 4-1 the rematch.There was belief in Price because you rarely see poor bookmakers.The rest is history.This was a guy that at one time Tyson Fury avoided and had taken out Anthony Joshua in sparring.The money fights were there for him he could of built a myth that fight fans would have bought into.

    Not all fighters can be world champions,guys like David Price could of walked away at least very wealthy,know your fighters limitations.Price was a big ticket seller,ko power,marketable but vulnerable.

    We had a manager called Mickey Duff,Dempsey will back me up on this imo he would of guided David Price differently.The old school matchmaking was focusing on a target and you almost followed what they did at domestic level.You beat the same opponents almost and if you felt you couldn't you took the next target of least resistance.The wider public,the casual fight fan are the ones you are building your fighter for,especially a fighter with flaws because at least they can do ok financially.

    Pro boxing is a business whereby so many people really don't know that you need to think long term and with your head not your heart.
     
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  4. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    M, thought we lost you, excellent post. You're right Mickey would have planned out Price' career much better. Mickey would have taken Price slower and gotten to know Price's strength and weaknesses, and matched accordingly. Why the rematch with Thompson was fought was beyond me and even the first fight, why. I dont think Price was ready for Thompson and the 2nd fight proved it. I dont know if any of ever fired a hi-powered rifle, the heavy recoil sometimes can cause you to flinch, when you pull the trigger, that flinch can throw your aim off big time. It's a mental thing, cos you anticipate the recoil and it affects your aim. Well, getting ko'd is the same and if you cant overcome, it will destroy your career. A fighter then becomes very defensive and skittish. Now the fighter is thinking about that ko loss. Even Joshua is being rushed but since the HW division is not full of killers at the moment, so he was become HW champion.
    Glad you're back keep posting, very knowledgeable post.
     
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  5. Makingweight

    Makingweight Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Still post D,but on another forum mainly.The British forum which I posted mainly on has gone downhill,when people are mocking fighters that have passed in a cycling accident like Gary Mason a Brit HW who was 37-1 only losing to an ATG in Lennox Lewis,you are conversing with idiots.You can't argue with idiots.

    You could educate them with what makes a fighter great like Lennox Lewis,who was actually the underdog on the night they met.He knew Mason had an eye problem,he had retina surgery over his right eye the year previous,Lewis targeted it by employing sparring partners with a band aid over their right eye.Lewis forced the stoppage 7th round.....right eye swollen but it wasn't one way traffic,still they split 276k decent coin.Mason was with our friend Mickey Duff as was of course Frank Bruno who himself had eye problems and a third HW called Horace Notice who retired 16-0,retina problems also,the guy would have done well as a modern CW as he was not far over 200 lb.

    Lennox Lewis like Wladimir Klistchko keen chess players and always thinking moves ahead as boxers.You can timeline both to learning from their losses,WK reinvented himself after losing to Corrie Sanders.He employed a great trainer in Emmanuel Steward and used his obvious physical attributes as a fighter,breaking them down with a jab and keeping center of the ring.

    Lewis also hooked up with Steward and learned from his mistakes,it's what can make average fighters good,good fighters great,look to add to your game the best fighters never stand still,keep looking to learn.Be a student of the game,every time you step into the ring is your examination if you have prepared well your chances of success increase tenfold.
     
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  6. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    again a very good post, thank you for posting. Glad you're back, I post on the Classic forum. I love arguing with the know it all's. I will be in NYC with Saucedo and GGG on March 12-19.
     
  7. sooners4life98

    sooners4life98 Member Full Member

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    Thanks for taking a look at this demps and diving into the managers thought process behind this deal. Would this be ok with a few tweaks to it. Like the length of the contract? I am not trying to do things the quick way. What I mean by this is that I will take my time and if I feel the fight is not right for my fighter, I won't pull the trigger to to make the fast money. Long story short, could I tweak this agreement to really suit both manager and fighter?
     
  8. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    S, yes it would be ok by tweaking it here and there. Just think about it, protect yourself as well as the fighter.
     
  9. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Here is an article on a manager who managed an ATG Jack Dempsey, John "the Barber", a manager from hell. I believe you might find interesting.
    This content is protected
     
  10. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Some advice guys, which I learned the hard way. When choosing a trainer dont go to him cos of his name, Roach, Garcia, Robles, Shields. Not that they aren't great trainers, the problem is that every fighter thinks the same and wants these trainers to train them. These elite trainers have to parcel out the fighters to his asst's. The elite trainer, has bigger fish and more money to make with their money guys. So, the prospect either winds up sparring with the money makers, and gets less time with the elite coach. Talk to the would be coach, look at the guys he is training, are they boxers, punchers or whatever your own particular style is. Like the saying goes "talk is cheap", listen to what you see. Look for individual punches, and how well or bad you see them thrown. Ask the all important question, will he give you floor time.
    This past weekend, I was sitting and talking to a manager of a very good prospect, he asked my thoughts on a trainer who was training his fighter. He was concerned that the trainer, trained his fighters to be aggressive. His fighter was a lanky quick counter puncher, with no real pop. My guy fit,but his guy guy didnt. I told him to look up two trainers Ronnie Shields, and Derrick James, cos they teach in that style, between them they have both Charlo brothers, and Errol Spence, so some good in house sparring. And best of all both Shields and James are exclusive they dont have many fighters. Anyway, do your homework cos it can make a difference in a fighters career.
     
  11. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    mcvey said:
    This content is protected

    I don't think Charnley had difficulty making weight. Mickey Duff named Charnley as the best British fighter never to have won the title since the War.Duff believes Charnley was robbed against Brown at Earls Court he said referee Tommy Little and Charnley's manager Arthur Boggis had bad blood between them and Little would not do them any favours.Duff said of Boggis , he was the gamest manager I ever saw,when offered a match for Charnley he never said who? He would say"how much?"

    Guys this was posted on the Classic's forum and I thought it best illustrated a point. Back in the '60's, Charnley was a leading LW. The last yr as a pro, Charnley a 135pdr, fought 2-147pdrs, Brian Curvis and ATG WW Emile Griffith. At the time I thought, why? Why, fight those fights, he wasnt a huge guy. It was always a puzzle. Now I know. This statement brought it home to me, "he was the gamest manager I ever saw,when offered a match for Charnley he never said who? He would say"how much?" by HOF, for those who dont know Mickey Duff was a promoter/manager, who managed and promoted many champions from the UK. The fighter he is talking about is Dave Charnly, a LW from the UK. If you dont know who Charnley was, ck him out on Youtube It will be worth your while, and Boxrec. Here's a guy, who coulda, shoulda been world champ he was that good.
    Guys before you settle for a manager protect yourself, do your homework, cos there are many managers, and booking agent who are looking to make money, and as Mickey said, they want to know "how much" and have no concern about "who". If anybody wants it broken down more I will explain.
     
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  12. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Guys just to fill out my last post. Before you sign with anybody ck their history as to who they managed and what they have done in boxing. A manager has an obligation to his fighter, as in the Charnley case putting him with Griffith was a shame, nevermind about the other WW Charnley fought Brian Curvis, it seems Charnley's manager was squeezing as much juice out of his fighter as he could. As an example ck out posts #1471-1472 that should give you insight into a manager who ask's "how much" and has no concern for "who". I do realize some fighters have no choice but to take whatever is offered. Protect yourself do your homework, you have to know what you are getting into and prepare for it.
     
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  13. alexland

    alexland student of the sweet science Full Member

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    first, thanks for opening this Thread.

    would you mind to briefly explain the role of a boxing manager (assuming the scope is roughly the same across the sport)?

    in particular, a professional fighter's team usually consists of a trainer, promoter, and manager.

    over the past decade or so, advisor is often an additional member of the team--eg, Al Haymon

    but there seems to be some overlap among the scope of these various team members (despite the legal restrictions imposed by the Ali Reform Act, which i believe deals with promoters vs managers), and it's these areas that make it difficult to understand what the manager's job is vis-a-vis the other's on the team.
     
  14. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Think about it this way, a fighter in reality is a business, the manager manages the business, makes sure everything is in place for the business(fighter) to do his thing. The manager, negotiates the fight, the opponent, the purse, and anything else having to do with the business(fighter).
    The advisor- advises on what moves to make, he brings contacts to grease the wheels for your fighter. Sometimes a manager is really a moneyman, and has little boxing experience so he brings in an advisor. Haymon, comes in as an advisor but practically is the manager. He does what the manager should be doing, negotiating the fights, purses. The manager gets his managerial percentage, Haymon gets his advisor percentage. Remember the max a manager can take is 33 1/3. The manager and the advisor negotiates the percentage each will make. Example advisor 10%, manager 23 1/3.
     
  15. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Another "BRAVE" manager story, the fighter was destroyed.
    "Marty Servo who was a tough cookie and great WW prospect who gave the 5"inch taller the ATG Sugar Ray Robinson fits in 2 close bouts. Servo ko'd Freddie Red Cochrane for the WW title in 1946. He was going great
    guns, but his famous manager foolishly matched Servo with the new sensation Rocky Graziano ,who one year before flattened a great prospect Billy Arnold an 8-1 favorite at MSG, ruining Billy Arnold forever. So the
    10 pound lighter Servo was pulverized by Graziano who damaged Servo's nose, ruining his future career also. The manager of Marty Servo was none other than Al Weil who later on guided Rocky Marciano to a HW title.
    The early Rocky Graziano [pre Zale] was a terror in the ring against welterweights.
    In the Charnley post and in this one, there was no reason to fight in a heavier weight class other than $.
     

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