i am now convinced Thomas Hearns was the greatest ever!

Lol.you make it sound like the 2 things are linked. Like Hearns beat him so badly, he killed him.

 

Good post

True, styles make fights.

Pretty sure Hagler could dent Shuler's chin, though. He was wobbled by Kinchen before he fought Hearns.

And Hagler certainly could absorb Mugabi's bombs better than Hearns could - if Mugabi happened to land on Hearns before Hearns got to him.

Also, Hagler and Hearns had vastly different body types.

So, while it's fair to say Hagler probably could never beat Virgil Hill and Nate Miller, etc. - you have to remember he didn't have the bulid, height and reach to easily fight in higher weight divisions, like Hearns did.

 

Duran and hearns the 2 worst.... Leonard and hagler the best of the 4

 

No frekkin way ..p4p
Duran
SRL - would be higher than Duran if he had more fights and was successful in them
Hearns
Hagler

I can see where Hearns Hagler might be switched but not for me. Moving up and being successful carries more weight

 

P4P Hagler never ever moved. Hearns can be debated above him for some.

 

This speaks to the nub of the issue. What counts most? Holding undisputed acclaim in a single weight division or traversing the classes to claim straps a piece?

I'm not convinced one trumps another by default.

 

It's worth remembering that Hearns was slightly favored to beat Leonard in '81; a big favorite to beat Barkley at Middleweight and then again favored to beat Barkley at 175.

I guess things don't always pan out the way the betting sees them going.

 

Exactly. This is why i don't write off individual nuances. Guys like Hearns, SRL, Benitez, duran - they could have built some impressive records staying put under where they ended up. Realistically SRL was never ever a middleweight yet there he was. Duran a middleweight? Jebus.

I have zero doubt Hagler would have brought in some losses with even a percentage of the risk these guys put forth.

 

Just on this one - SRL opened at 8-5 but big Detroit money for Hearns changed it by fight time. The odds were a little bit skewed. 34 of 48 writers favored Sugar.

 

Aye - it was late money moving on Hearns that tipped it to more or less even. In real terms, it would have been strange to see the betting go heavily against Leonard, anyway.

That said, Hearns was being given a real chance and we now know why. At the same time, we also saw what was looking like a lot of Hearns' promise being dashed by Leonard in the championship rounds. And, we have to take these elements into consideration - particularly, when a speculation suggest that Hearns could beat every man on another great Boxer's ledger.

 

Jumping from 160 lbs to 175 lbs when you are Hagler's height and build would have been dumb, especially with a guy like 6-2 with long reach Michael Spinks holding the undisputed title for much of Hagler's 160 lb. reign. Also, 168 lbs was a joke division when Hagler ruled at 160 lbs.

Hearns grew out of the 147 lb. division and had the height and reach to move up several divisions.

Yes, it was impressive that Duran was able to jump from 135 lbs. to 147 lbs. and beat Leonard and to nip Barkely at 160 lbs. He had slowly grown out of the 135 lb. division and had fought at 147 lbs. for a couple of years before facing Leonard. And, he could not beat any greats at 154 lbs or 160 lbs - he was too small. And, he held a vast edge in experience over Leonard and was himself still prime. Barkley other than having Hearn's number was rather mediocre.

Yes, it was impressive that Leonard was able to nip Hagler at 160 lbs, but let's face it, he didn't do it in 1982 when Hagler was prime. And when he went after the dual 168/175 lb title it was against Don LaLonde, long after the formidable Michael Spinks was gone from the LHW division.

Benitez, like Hearns, grew out of 147 lbs, just as he had grown out of 140 lbs.

You have to analyze the weight jumping or lack thereof on a case by case basis.

 

Once Hearns was hurt in the 13th round, it was academic he wasn't going to make it to the end of the fight. Maybe he could have won if it was schduled for 12 rounds, but then again Leonard may have started his push earlier.

 

I've more than likely posted something like I'm about to before but I think Hagler, an average-to-small-sized Middleweight (perfect physique for the weight, in my opinion) jumping 15 pounds to face Light Heavyweights would have dwarfed any risk taken by the Leonard and Hearns.

 

Agreed. When Hearns got tagged it really disrupted him. It wasn't really easy to get to 'Boxer Hearns' but the undisciplined, 'Fancy Dan Hearns' got tagged fairly easily, in my opinion.

That said, out-boxing Leonard, such as he did at times, does make one wonder about how a fight might have gone over 12.

 

Especially when the Undisputed LHW champion was Michael Spinks.

I guess he could have had a shot against the likes of JB Williamson, Prince Mama Muhammad, Slobodan Kacar.
I don't think the guys after Spinks would have meant much of a payday to justify the risk of moving up.

He could have beaten Chong Pal Park in Korea for a payday, but really, Park couldn't even beat Fully Obel, who Hagler obliterated twice, so there wasn't too much challenge there.