i am now convinced Thomas Hearns was the greatest ever!

Yes. When you look at it, there was no sensible option there.

Arum talked about a Hagler/Spinks catchweight, in '85. Even then, it seemed laughable - particularly, as Spinks went on to match Holmes, later the same year.

 

In defense of Hearns,I wonder why Barkely couldn't ko him again in the rematch?.

 

Spot on mate, its always been more difficult to go from middleweight to light heavyweight than from welterweight to middleweight. A lot more former welters have had luck at 160 than middleweights at 175 although it isnt impossible.

Fighters like Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, D ick Tiger and Eddie Gregory - Mustapha Muhammad did make the transition.

Cheers.

 

which makes Hearns moving up and winning the light heavyweight title 2 separate times impressive. He was the first welterweight to win the lightheavyweight title. I am not sure any others have done it since.

 

I think Sugar Ray Leonard also did it, a year or so after Hearns.

 

No, it isn't impossible - for sure. However, of the examples mentioned - other than Tiger - I'd say all were larger framed fighters than Hagler. Eddie Mustafa Muhammad never really campaigned seriously at 160, as was the case for Charles; both were regularly fighting above that weight, quite early on in their careers; building themselves towards their competition weight of 175.

Old Mongoose was a very special kind of fighter and even he had to work hard over several years and many bouts, towards becoming recognised as a truly world class LHW.

And, not to totally forget Tiger... ...How do we think he would have fared against, say, Michael Spinks?

It's a tough transition indeed.

 

Well he did on paper but I am not OK with him making LaLonde come down to 168 and then fight for both titles simply because Leonard had the money A-side and therefore could force the fight he wanted.

 

I never even thought Ray Leonard did that since he did it cheating in my mind. He had Lalonde go down 7 pounds to 168 so both could fight for the 168 and 175 pound titled on the same night, just to match Hearns, who won his 5th 3 dsays before against Kinchen. And, neither Lalonde or Leonard were ranked at 168 and they are fighting for that vacant title, and then fighting for Lalonde's title with Donny (by his own admission) totally depleted from losing weight. Ray never could have won the light heavyweight title at 175 pounds. Hearns did it twice against two different guys 4 years apart. I cannot in my mind accept Ray as a lightheavyweight titlist. That is the same as if he weakens any bigger guy and fights them lower to win the title. It was about winning the title and not about the honour of really beating a legit champ at their weight.

 

Although let me add something. Do I think Ray could have beaten Dennis Andries at 175 ? It would have been a big guy for him but he could have edged Andries maybe by decision. Let me tell you. Andries had a decent jab especially after Steward worked with him. Andries jabbing at a smaller Ray might have been trouble for Ray.. Ray would have never beaten Virgil Hill. Virgil would have won an easy UD or TKO late. Ray was too small for Virgil and Virgil had speed to counter Ray.

 

Hearns/Kinchen was not for a World Title.

Kinchen subbed for WBA 168 Champ. Fully Obel, who pulled out of the fight. He kept his title and lost it the next year.

 

Iran Barkley was not the same fighter he had been. He was deteriorating pretty fast. His vision was off. Later he fought Toney and appeared half blind.

 

Tell me you’re kidding. Virgil Hill boxes Kovalev silly, Toney makes him cry, RJJ makes a highlight reel out of him too.

 

I never saw Hagler badly wobbled against Hearns. In fact Hearns’s big right hand inspired Spielberg to add this scene to The Color Purple.

This content is protected

 

Yeah agreed the LtHeavyweights were weak at that time Czyz was able to win a title at 175

 

I remember Czyz saying over and over how he wanted to fight Hearns. He wanted Hearns name on his record and thought Hearns was washed up and he saw the fight with Kinchen.. So he wanted a big name on his record who was on the downside.. Yet two guys who beat Czyz. Hill and Andries, are the guys Hearns beat for his titles. Bobby Czyz was ok, but a little overrated. I agree.