I can never understand hating Ali

Much like you he couldn't keep his mouth shut, because he was also a buffoon with a room temperature IQ.

 

Why is your post typed like this? Your parents obviously didn't care enough about you to not raise you to be stupid.

 

Yellowmustard claims that Frazier and Foreman ducked Shavers. What does Shavers being a better journeyman than Mike Weaver have to do with that?

He 'almost' stopped Ron Lyle? Almost? Fact is he didn't stop him. He got stopped by him. And he "probably" deserved to win these other fights? I saw the fights you mentioned, he didn't deserve sh!t.

Shavers was a pure puncher, because if he landed his bomb and the other guy survived (Holmes, Ali, Tillis, etc), he was finished.

Why is it that when Frazier wins his fights by cuts stoppages, you say he cheated and that the wins weren't conclusive? But when Earnie stopped Bugner on cuts it's another story...

Chuvalo, Stander, Quarry didn't even make the half way point in their fights with Frazier. On the other hand, Shavers couldn't make it out of the first ****ing round against Jerry Quarry. Maybe Quarry cheated too?

And I'm still looking for the win that earned Shavers his shot at Ali...

 

red part is true

d answer 2 yor qweschen iz det dis iz inglish d wei it iz end d wei it shud b riten , anles u wont 2 cheinj 2 wei u spik in order 2 fit it 2d wei u taip

i just got the impression that u underestimate Shavers somewhat

but then u probably also watched Ramirez vs Whitaker , Chavez vs Whitaker
and scored them 2 Whitaker
and Pinklon Thomas vs Tim Witherspoon and scored it 2 Thomas

Holmes only "finished" Shavers (whom remained upright throughout)
after thumbing him well.
On the other occasions that u mentioned, including Holmes whom went down himself vs a past it Shavers without ever even flooring him,
Shavers was far from finished after the other guy survived, just 2d contrary of what u typed.

I wrote that Frazier winning 2 on cuts and another on facial damage is a clue 2 me for serial cheating.
Anyway it is not conclusive and even less concussive
On paper Shavers stopped Bugner due 2 cuts. In reality that was Bugner's corner excuse for saving face (partially) and letting him out of the ring in 1 piece. Shavers floored him and would have done it again if d fight was allowed 2 continue.

I did not excuse Shavers' loss 2 Quarry

Jimmy Young*2 : what Foreman, Ali, Lyle*2 and Norton all failed 2 manage

And even his win over Ellis is worth more than Ali's win over Cleveland Williams 4 example.

I can allow myself 2 somewhat derail from d topic of your question b/c it rel8s better 2d topic of zis tred by asking zis :

im stil luking 4d win det ernd Ali hiz shot @ Liston

wich debacle did it 4 him IYO? Henry Cooper? Doug Jones?

 

You see, like all good dogs you know your place in life. No need for the sir, but it is nice you thanked me for pointing out you are somewhat stupid.:hi:

 

growing up in the 60's I could see both pro and con, while Ali (a middle class kid) found a radical way to (joining the black muslin GANG) and speaking out against whites and not fighting for his country was not ordinary in America at the time. We know now that a lot of war is politics but most of the family's that sent their kids to war had complete trust in their country. I can understand not agreeing with bigotry that was prevalent at the time but the Black Muslims especially in the NE were a bunch of gangsters that sold drugs to their own black people, I think Ali learned later that he was used by the Muslims but was sincere in his faith.

I guess we can say youth is wasted on the young but Ali like a lot of the American youth protested V N war just that Ali's celebrity and color actually helped him to avoid jail unlike many others who had to flee or be imprisoned

 

With all due respect that is not pertinent only to the US. The other day I was drinking with a guy who served 25 years with the RUC ( Royal Ulster Constabulary ) and he was telling us that on BOTH sides the religious bigotry was merely a front for the organised crime that the hierarchy of these mobs made fortunes from.

Similar to what went on in the states the few spew out the propaganda, and the mugs at street level fall for it, whilst the money goes into the few's pockets.

 

I said the origins of WW 2 were in rooted the Versailles Treaty of 1919 and that is generally accepted to be a fact by historians.

You have tried to interpret my words to suit your argument,fortunately I can paste them here.I quote my statement on WW2 Below.

"Thanks for the history lesson, but I think you will find that the Second World War originated as a direct consequence of the Versailles Treaty of May 1919"

Thats a bit different to your "interpretation" of my words.

Below some views on the origins of WW2
There are a few thousand I could use to prove my statement, but as you have reading difficulties I'll just post these.

"Out of all causes of World War II, The Foreign Bank's control over the German economy, Problems with the Treaty of Versailles especially of the agrarian resources to the east of Germany was the primary one." Wikipaedia.



"Treaty of Versailles

In 1919, Lloyd George of England, Orlando of Italy, Clemenceau of France and Woodrow Wilson from the US met to discuss how Germany was to be made to pay for the damage world war one had caused.

This content is protected

Woodrow Wilson wanted a treaty based on his 14-point plan which he believed would bring peace to Europe.
Georges Clemenceau wanted revenge. He wanted to be sure that Germany could never start another war again.
Lloyd George personally agreed with Wilson but knew that the British public agreed with Clemenceau. He tried to find a compromise between Wilson and Clemenceau.
​

Germany had been expecting a treaty based on Wilson's 14 points and were not happy with the terms of the Treaty of Versailles. However, they had no choice but to sign the document.
The main terms of the Treaty of Versailles were:

1. War Guilt Clause - Germany should accept the blame for starting World War One
2. Reparations - Germany had to pay �6,600 million for the damage caused by the war
3. Disarmament - Germany was only allowed to have a small army and six naval ships. No tanks, no airforce and no submarines were allowed. The Rhineland area was to be de-militarised.
4. Territorial Clauses - Land was taken away from Germany and given to other countries. Anschluss (union with Austria) was forbidden.

More details on the Treaty of Versailles
The German people were very unhappy about the treaty and thought that it was too harsh. Germany could not afford to pay the money and during the 1920s the people in Germany were very poor. There were not many jobs and the price of food and basic goods was high. People were dissatisfied with the government and voted to power a man who promised to rip up the Treaty of Versailles. His name was Adolf Hitler."
Top

<H3>"Effects of the Treaty of Versailles

Many of the seeds of World War II in Europe were sown by the Treaty of Versailles that ended World War I. In its final form, the treaty placed full blame for the war on Germany and Austria-Hungary, as well as exacted harsh financial reparations and led to territorial dismemberment. For the German people, who had believed that the armistice had been agreed to based on US President Woodrow Wilson's lenient Fourteen Points, the treaty caused resentment and a deep mistrust of their new government, the Weimar Republic. The need to pay war reparations, coupled with the instability of the government, contributed to massive hyperinflation which crippled the German economy. This situation was made worse by the onset of the Great Depression.
In addition to the economic ramifications of the treaty, Germany was required to demilitarize the Rhineland and had severe limitations placed on the size of its military, including the abolishment of its air force. Territorially, Germany was stripped of its colonies and forfeited land for the formation the country of Poland. To ensure that Germany would not expand, the treaty forbade the annexation of Austria, Poland, and Czechoslovakia."
</H3>

 

Into which category does the poster below your post fall?

 

You fancy a bit of Wikipedia do you moron? How about this?

Hitler's aggressive foreign policy is considered to be the primary cause of the outbreak of World War II in Europe. His antisemitic policies and racially motivated ideology resulted in the deaths of at least 5.5 million Jews, and millions of other people whom he and his followers deemed racially inferior.

Or perhaps this might suit your know nothing arrogant garbage.

The Treaty of Versailles stipulated that Germany must relinquish several of its territories and demilitarise the Rhineland. The treaty imposed economic sanctions and levied heavy reparations on the country. Many Germans perceived the treaty&#8212;especially Article 231, which declared Germany responsible for the war&#8212;as a humiliation.[72] The Versailles Treaty and the economic, social, and political conditions in Germany after the war were later exploited by Hitler for political gains.

Now what part of that are you TOO effing stupid to understand?

Political gains, are NOT military gains. IDIOT.

I will ask you nicely.

Please stick to the low level of debate you are used to. Don't get above your station, and make yourself even more foolish than you are.

For the NEXT lesson I will teach you how Hitler convinced himself, and his followers that communism in general, and bolshevism in particular were the biggest threat to Europe, and how he intended to use all of the Eastern European countries, and their populations as slaves to increase the standards of living for Germanic peoples.

Just let me know when you are clever enough to absorb the lessons.

Here is a little bit more Wiki seeing as you like to quote it when it suits your half witted brain.


Of the many provisions in the treaty, one of the most important and controversial required "Germany [to] accept the responsibility of Germany and her allies for causing all the loss and damage" during the war (the other members of the Central Powers signed treaties containing similar articles). This article, Article 231, later became known as the War Guilt clause. The treaty forced Germany to disarm, make substantial territorial concessions, and pay reparations to certain countries that had formed the Entente powers. In 1921 the total cost of these reparations was assessed at 132 billion Marks (then $31.4 billion or £6.6 billion, roughly equivalent to US $442 billion or UK £284 billion in 2013). At the time economists, notably John Maynard Keynes predicted that the treaty was too harsh&#8212;a "Carthaginian peace", and said the figure was excessive and counterproductive. The historian Sally Marks judged the reparation figure to be lenient, a sum that was designed to look imposing but was in fact not, that had little impact on the German economy and analyzed the treaty as a whole to be quite restrained and not as harsh as it could have been.[7]

The result of these competing and sometimes conflicting goals among the victors was a compromise that left none contented: Germany was not pacified or conciliated, nor permanently weakened. The problems that arose from the treaty would lead to the Locarno Treaties, which improved relations between Germany and the other European Powers, and the renegotiation of the reparation system resulting in the Dawes Plan, the Young Plan, and finally the postponement of reparations at the Lausanne Conference of 1932. The reparations were finally paid off by Germany after World War II.

Anyone can be selective.

 

Know anything about psychology, gents? I do. Here are the symptoms of narcissism. Tell me who you think they sound more like, Ali or Frazier?

&#8226;A constant need for attention, affirmation and praise.

&#8226;A belief that he or she is unique or "special" and should only associate with other people of the same status.

&#8226;Persistent fantasies about attaining success and power.

&#8226;Exploiting other people for personal gain.

&#8226;A sense of entitlement and expectation of special treatment.

&#8226;A preoccupation with power or success.

&#8226;Feeling envious of others, or believing that others are envious of him or her.

&#8226;A lack of empathy for others.

 

And you believed him?atsch

 

HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HIYLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER HITLER...How many Ko's did Hitler have anyway!???:-((

 

Ofcourse he did..He was drinking with his alter ego. Right before he told his drinking buddy he was Santa Clause...PT