I don't believe that Quarry KO'd Norton in sparring

Sure, that’s exactly what I was asking - who you thought won - and by what margin.

Fair enough if you believe the rubber could’ve gone either way - obviously I don’t but that still allows for some folks justifiably believing that Norton did beat Ali for the title.

Due respect but you still haven’t said who you thought won - your “could’ve gone either way” is duly noted and deferential to alternate opinions but that doesn’t really tell me who you personally think actually won the fight.

Gun to head - who did you have winning?

It’s a reasonable argument to say that the motive behind what I saw as blatantly official bias toward Ali at Yankee Stadium was that they didn’t want lose or let go of the sport’s main attraction.

Last time I scored it - I think I had it 10-5 Norton or worst case, 9-6 Norton. A very clear win.

For whatever it’s worth, and it maybe nothing, Ali clearly said “Yeah, I lost” after the fight and his post fight body language, imo, was that of a man who thought he had lost the fight.

Of course that’s not hard evidence in its own right but perhaps still worth mentioning.

I also disagree with the general assessment of Norton being overrated and the claim that his rep. was only based on his successes against Ali or that those successes against Ali came down to mere, happenstance stylistic advantage.

I think I’ve probably already said enough previously in regards to the merits of Ken’s “Non Ali” career.

Broadly, I happened upon a recent interview with Larry Holmes re Norton and their fight - an official razor thin loss for Norton - and a fight that was imo, in all truth, as close as you can get to a draw.

Another excellent performance against an ATG who didn’t fight like Ali - what are the odds of an “overrated”, mediocre fighter (and past his prime) performing to such a high level and running it so close against another ATG?

Anyway, Holmes notably affords Norton excellent durability and power of punch.

Also, this claim of Larry being a “one armed” fighter vs Norton should really be put to bed -

Larry makes it clear his left arm was fine by fight time and that he was pumping the jab like there no tomorrow - which can be plainly seen on film, with or without Holmes’ testimony.

However, in the interview, Larry does veer off from being a perfectly credible witness when he says he beat Norton clearly, winning every round.

I’ll cherry pick that one claim out and say that’s the only part Larry got wrong. Otherwise, I give Larry a 95% pass on the exam.

https://www.sportingnews.com/au/amp...-my-sweetest-victory/qazy0ybywi0c9b5jkwodrjfj

 

@Pugguy My apologies, I forgot to mention his juvenile homophobic remarks and his obsession with The Big Cat. Continuing to bring him up in threads that have nothing to do with him then proceed to accuse others of obsessing over him. Someone should tell this guy, their's more to boxing than Cleveland Williams.

 

No apology required Swag.

 

I think Ali won the third Norton fight. I think 10-5 for Norton is CRAZY. I also think (and ypu can search old posts to see my thoughts on this) that outside of a few rounds Holmes controlled Norton easily (with a torn bicep). Ive always thought that fight was overrated barring a few close, ebb and flow rounds. Call it razor thin? No. When Holmes elected to box he had that fight well in hand.

Regardless, Ive spoken to more than one person who was there when Quarry knocked Norton out cold at the Main Street Gym and I know for a fact that Norton turned down several offers to face Quarry until he was past his prime. Believe it or not, make of it what you will, but if Norton didnt like Quarry and had animosity toward him and Quarry felt he was being ducked then thst could be why.

 

Norton was mimicking Jimmy Ellis for Frazier's upcoming bout with him.

 

Fair play - they’re your opinions, I differ greatly on your interpretation of the Ali 3 and Holmes fights. Tbh, I find it very difficult to see how anyone could see Norton not winning the rubber.

However and anyway, the torn left bicep factor is wildly overdone. The arm was fine come fight time - and Holmes’ hyperactive use of that arm during the fight is the perfect evidence.

While Norton deliberately (and errantly) held back, Holmes won those early rounds virtually via the jab alone. How much better could he have worked that arm? He couldn’t have - that was as good as it gets.

 

Supposedly McCall knocked Tyson down in sparring.

**** happens in sparring.

 

I've been seeing this thread up for a couple of days now and didn't want to even comment on it until I called a buddy of mine who was present for this event. I'm paraphrasing from our discussion on it but this is how it went down:

"This session took place just before Norton's bout with Jose Luis Garcia in 1970. I had already made my pro debut and was supposed to fight on the undercard of Norton-Garcia, but for whatever reason it didn't happen and I ended up fighting my second pro bout at the Olympic a week later. I had been sparring with Antonio Gomez and Centavito Hernandez for their bout and was in the Main Street Gym steadily during this period. I was skipping rope in a full length mirror when I saw in the reflection Norton and Jerry getting into the ring. I simply turned around, continuing my skipping, just to watch. Bill Slayton, Norton's trainer, had worked with Jerry before and put together this session. You never knew with Jerry what kind of a mood he was in or what was going to happen. But on this day I watched Jerry go to the body and then rip to the head and Norton was finished. He was not out cold, as has been reported over the years, but he was down and done for the evening. Bill Slayton immediately jumped in the ring ending matters."

I asked him if it was true that they regularly sparred and he said he heard that but can't corroborate, that the only session he was present for was the KO session. This was from former bantamweight/featherweight Rick Farris, who is now the President of the West Coast Boxing Hall of Fame. So let's put this one to bed.

 

It was completely believable as Norton was still a fledgling and not remotely the fighter he was to become. On top of this he got knocked out by Garcia in his next fight and Garcia isn't a patch on Quarry. It's not hard to fathom at all.

 

I should have added great sharing of insight and information Scar.

 

To echo JT, thanks Scar, excellent info.

 

I did exist.

In fact, I was at that session, furiously sucking away on my pacifier which I immediately spat out when Norton went down.

I was upset because I really thought he’d killed Kenny.

 

If true, you could question Quarry for going so hard at a fledging Norton, particularly straight out of the gates. There was animosity between the two men, this might’ve been the catalyst. Makes you wonder how many sparring sessions spawned the “seeking of revenge” scenarios, later realised or not.

Norton complained of white fighters being given greater advantage back in the day - implicating Quarry in that claim.

I think Norton also accused Quarry of direct racism. My knowledge of Quarry (which is only average) tells me that Jerry wasn’t at all racist.

In fact, Quarry came across as a pretty nice, articulate and intelligent guy. Damn shame how he deteriorated in his mid life years.