I don't get the Roy Jones Jr. Adoration

Roy Jones Jr. was a phenomenon. But - clearly - not one beyond reproach and his physical talents (speed/reflexes), contributing to an extraordinary flair, certainly take him far in the 'adoration' stakes.

I have no problem with the perception of RJJ's overall greatness being challenged. His career presents enough questions for there to be a debate at least, regardless of the eye test he passed, time and time again.

I do find the criticism of his boxing fundamentals interesting, if only for the fact RJJ has, in the past, offered some very astute observations, during his time as a color commentator for HBO. That is to say, he clearly had a deep understanding of the finer points.

Though, I'd have to agree with the sentiments of the OP, in that RJJ did appear to suffer quite starkly, as his speed and reflexes diminished, with little in the toolbox to compensate.

 

One of the two greatest middleweights (SRR) of all time.

 

"...RJJ has, in the past, offered some very astute observations..."


" Weeell, he betta quit then. I guarantee you he will not make it out this round!"

 

Someone earlier remarked that they can't think of another fighter looking so clearly dominant against top competition, and I'd have to agree. I mean he ****ing clowned James Toney for god's sake. That said, I can kind of see why some people might find his career pre and post Ruiz difficult to reconcile. How can someone go from looking so untouchable to entirely mortal in so short a time?

My take is that people are right to say he was dependent on his reflexes, and his relatively abrupt decline is an example of a how a little change can make a big difference in performance when spit second timing is central to your game.

 

I think LaMotta was 5-4-1 in his last 10 fights against pretty mediocre opposition after his last fight with SRR. He went from one of the top 10 (at least) middleweights ever to now only being considered a club fighter, apparently.

 

Well you gotta consider it wasn't that short of a time. Ruiz was slower than the average LHW and still hit him with a few real power shots in round 1 and a few sporadic ones later.

Let's look at Jones opposition prior to Ruiz.

2002
Woods. Ok fighter nothing special but manages to pin Jones on the ropes when he actually doesn't want to be there and actually manages to close one of Jones eyes before getting stopped.


Glen Kelly was straight up bad and was KOd with his hands behind his back and



2001 he fought Gonzalez who was good and went onto beat Michalcewski and Merchant said that Jones is taking more risks and getting hit more when that might have been the first signs of decline


Eric Harding, pretty good tall southpaw

he needed 4-5 rounds to figure out Eric Harding(who had broken tarvers jaw and beat him up bad to earn the Jones fight) before he took over and started to dominate.

So you could see him slowly slipping a couple of years before he got KOd.

Against Reggie Johnson a 3 weight champ in 99 he still looked superhuman, he won every round knocked him down hard twice and was the only guy in Johnson's career to beat him decisively and the closest anyone came to stopping him.




2001 quote from Friday Night Fights by Max Kellermann who was working for ESPN at the time and was reviewing that weeks fights and their results.
"Roy Jones won all 12 rounds against Gonzalez, knocked him down 3 times but also proved he is no longer the fighter he once was"
Noting that he was starting to slow down and get hit

So the decline might have been sudden to some but the gap between him and his opposition was actually started to narrow in the years before his defeat and now in hindsight when you watch closely you can see him slow down, spend more time on the ropes and throw less combinations.

Both Ali and Leonard were not the same at 34 as they were at 25, so why should Jones who used even less conventional technique?

 

I lol'd at this post. I suppose you've never waded through page after page of Mr Dago Wop (disgusting name) and Suziq69 ( I think) going back and forth insulting one another. The verbal battles between Mendoza and McVey are legendary....and go back a decade at least. Or Combate de whoeverheis correcting grammatical mistakes.

Logic? Value? Au contraire, son.

 

Uh, are you aware that Alan Dershowitz was the youngest tenured law professor in Harvard's history?
Have you ever heard the epigram (wrongly attributed to Henry Kissinger) "Academic disputes are so petty because the stakes are so low"?
If that could actually be attributed to him, it would be one of the few truthful things he ever said.

Believe it or not, if we're grading on a curve I see a closer a approximation of rational argumentation here than in many segments of human society, including no small portion of academia.

 

Saw a great thread there last week regarding Duran. It probably outshone ours.

 

Gosh you are too smart for me. I only have a high school education. Way too many syllables for me to comprehend your magnificent verbage.

 

My dad only has a high school education, and he understands me okay. You probably do too. My verbiage isn't as complicated as it might sound.

 

Oh, if I may offer a few counterexamples to the legitimate (and rather hilarious) ones you named:

Mcvey is a very knowledgeable commenter (which he humbly denies) who is pretty measured and laid back when he's not shaking Mendoza off his ankle.

Seamus I disagree with about 90% of the time but even so his comments are usually informative (to me) and often quite witty. He's an accomplished wiseass.

Janitor I agree with far more often and I have yet to see him make a bad point that I can recall. I almost always learn something interesting in reading his posts.

 

I lol’ed at “magnificent verbiage”!

 

Who said that and on what basis?