I don't get why people think a 70's Foreman beats a prime Tyson

I don't need proof. What do Holyfield's shoulder reps have to do with anything?? Foreman is holding the animal, not pressing it. Do you understand the difference? Men can hold far more weight across their shoulders than they can actually press or even squat. Not sure how long its been since you've been in a gym, but it would not be remarkable at all to see a fit 215-lb man with Holyfield's musculature squat 405 pounds, let alone just hold it across his shoulders.

I get that you're super impressed by Foreman and his cow picture, but if you're tired of repeating yourself maybe you should just stop?

 

-ali had underrated power. And you said it yourself punches you dont see coming can be especially damaging. The fact foreman took so many from a sharp accurate puncher and didnt go down until he punched himself out says a lot.

-foreman was in 100% berserk mode against ali. Like u said, he sometimes had contempt for his opponents punches. But that wasnt the case every single time. Ali was a master troll and got in foremans head from the opening bell.

If you look at his other fights, foreman was actually very defensively responsible. He was constantly aware of range, his opponents tempo, etc and avoided their biggest shots. Stop buying into the common narrative:

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-outlanding him 3-1? Dont exaggerate. Tyson had to be close first of all, and his punches are only fast in combinations, he isnt going to just be landing at will from the outside or mid range like hes sugar ray leanard.

He couldnt outland bruno or ruddock 3-1 lol.

-tyson was stopped 5x and foreman faced way more punchers than tyson (or anyone for that matters). How the hell is tysons chin better?

-foreman will not struggle to hit a shorter guy with short t rex arms who only knew how to fight coming forward. Literally everything you wrote in this sentence is innacurate.

-lets not act like tysons stamina was waaay better. Foreman never went the distance because he had a ridiculous 90% ko ratio. The myth of his stamina is because for the trillionth time he punched himself out in sweltering heat fighting like a madman against an elusive defensive target. He had gone 10 rounds with peralta no problem.

Tyson has no KOs after round 7 so idk why you keep bringing up the later rounds when he never stopped anyone late other than garbage ribalta. His power fizzed and faded pretty quickly.

-watch the video i posted above, foreman had decent defense and ring generalship when he wasnt in a berserker state.

Hered another one:

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-tyson mindlessly brawled in his prime against thomas, even the commentators noted that he looked frustrated and seemed like he didnt know what to do with an oppnent that didnt get KOed early. Tyson had no plan B and thats a FACT lol.

 

Are you an idiot? Youre talking about the last time ive been to a gym and youre saying "any" guy 215 lbs should be able to handle 500 lbs on their shoulders or squat it? Lol!

So you kept responding with no proof and proceeded to talk out of your ass? Have a good day. Dont reply unless youre going to supply evidence.

 

You really should take some time to work on your reading comprehension skills, brother. It's never too late.

 

Its not too late to look up actual evidence to backup claims you pulled out of your ass.

 

Physically Tyson has what it takes to knockout Foreman. That is common sense. He's faster, he punched sharp in combination. Tyson took a good punch. He could best any version of Foreman.

But....if I had my last $100 to gamble on it? I wouldn't take the chance on his mind holding together. I don't trust his mental strength and poise. It was lacking. I saw it too many times.

 

I think you've nailed it with the request of detractors to "Stop buying into the common narrative".

This continuous, often tacit suggestion that Foreman was just a crude slugger (and with a leaking gas tank, no less) is the basis for much of the imagined disadvantages weighted against him, head-to-head.

Foreman was not textbook but many successful Boxers have been less than technically precise. What Foreman did demonstrate were excellent fighting instincts, which blended to form a highly effective fighting machine, rather than an aesthetically acceptable master of pugilistic form (which, it seems, many of today's fans equate with elite level Boxing).

With regards to Foreman's apparently weaker stamina, there are not enough consistent indications to support such a claim. Amongst other things, if a 48 year old, 260lb Foreman can go 12, I'm not all that swayed into thinking that stamina is a key consideration in this bout.

 

Now from where comes that again? Didn´t we discuss that before? And no, a) Foreman didn´t lift that cow and b) you do not know any weight, c) its not that hard to just hold weights standing. Holyfield would make it.

Foreman fought two punchers: Lyle, who hurt him badly, and Morrison, who won a decision.
Tyson fought Bonecrusher, Ruddock 2x and Bruno 2x.

Its absurd to make a case for Foreman beeing better against hard punchers. One exposed him badly! Tyson got tagged at times, but was always in good control afterwards in 5 meetings.

 

Tyson only knew how to fight coming forward? Not in his prime. He could box. Watch his amateur fights. Watch the bonecrusher smith fight. Whats so hard to grasp about a young and smart fighter like Tyson, to try a different strategy against a fighter who was bigger and stronger? Since when can a 21 year old guy who had shown boxing skills and lateral movement before not change his strategy for a fight?

His punches are only fast in combos? Tyson has more 1 punch KOs over contenders than almost anyone other than maybe Lennox Lewis.
1 punch KOs without punishing an opponent first require tremendous handspeed and accuracy. Foreman on the other hand, is maybe a harder puncher than tyson but his KOs were more like brutal clubbings than skillful 1 punch assasinations.

Everyone else struggled to hit prime tyson, but foreman with his wild swings would not?

Tyson tried to box from round 2-5 against thomas and came up short, he then blasted him out when thomas started to tire.

Yes tyson outlanded razor ruddock 3 to 1. Tysons jab, straight right, left hook, body shots, uppercuts with both hands vs razors smash and very rare right uppercut or straight right. Watch it again and count if you want.

Same with the bruno rematch, same with the smith fight.


I bring up the later rounds because George is the one who gassed out and collapsed twice against guys he had trouble hitting.


If Tyson had seen Foreman frazier, he would know not to attack Foreman straight ahead. If Tyson was reigning champ and foreman was an unheralded contender then yeah tyson would just attack him and possibly lose a shootout.

 

Walcott's situation is NOTHING like those of the fighters you mentioned. Unlike them, Walcott had just one the title after 5 tries. I'm sure had he beat Marciano he would have been more than happy to continue to defend it. Unlike Lewis and Wlad, Walcott fought a rematch.

He was clearly not shot when he fought Marciano because he was able to go toe to toe as well as outbox a young prime bull of a heavyweight in Rocky Marciano. It seems you and Walcott disagree on his condition and retirement opinions. I think I'll go with Walcott here.

2/6 = 1/3...

Walcott wasn't active? He had fought Charles just 3 months before he fought Marciano and had fought 4 times in the previous 2 years only taking a year off between winning the title from Charles and defending successfully against Charles who was active having fought 3 fights in that span so the layoff didn't effect him.

8 of Walcott's losses came prior to his first retirement in 1940 during which he was living on welfare and trying to provide for a large family.

Foreman hadn't been in ring wars? What about the Ali fight? What about the Lyle fight? What about the Young fight which had him praising God in the dressing room and screaming about how he had been born again? Foreman's ring wars were much worse than Walcott's. Walcott fought close tough fights with Charles, not ring wars where both fighters are getting knocked down routinely. The Louis fights weren't wars either, Walcott surgically outclassed him in the first fight and he got caught in the second one.

 

I think it's funny that people need to exaggerate flaws in Foreman so that Tyson seems like he has a better shot at winning. To me this fight is pretty clear, and it's unmistakably in the favor of Foreman. Sure, anything can happen in a fight, and Tyson has the tools to beat most any HW in history if things go down a certain path. However, there is no way Tyson should be favored in this matchup. No way.

 

1-post a pic or vid of holyfield standing there with a 500 lbs on his shoulders or drop it. Apparently you dont understand how evidence works.

2-smith did not land any power punches until the last round, he didnt even try he held for 90% of the fight. Thats a terrible example. Bruno was scared to death and rarely managed to hit him, mostly rabbit punching, holding and smothering and not opening up.

He was stopped by douglas and holyfield, neither guy hit as hard as foreman. He was stopped by a cautious lewis who mostly hit behind a jab and wouldnt open up till mike was a gassing sitting duck. The only time mike fought a big puncher and prevailed without being stopped was ruddock and he had many points deducted for flagrant fouls to win.

3-foreman fought more punchers than anyone in heavyweight history:

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-Foreman fought more dangerous punchers than almost any other heavyweight (except perhaps ali amd holyfield) yet hes only been stopped once in a fight where he gassed himself out.

-who were they? Lets take a look at some of these punchers and how they were doing at the time he met them:

-chuvalo: 67% ko rate. Rigged journeuman with loads of experience and a nasty body shot. Had only been stopped once by frazier (due to a previous injury reopening). Chuvalo couldnt hurt foreman, couldnt drop him or even lump him up or buzz him. Foreman brutally pummeled him in 3 against the ropes.

-kirkman 78% ko rate. Had only 1 prior loss (a stoppage due to a cut over the eye against veteran doug jones). Foreman bounced him off the canvas before the ref stopped it.

-frazier 86% ko rate unified champ who had never been stopped. No losses. No explanation needed.

-norton 72% ko rate. Again no explanation needed. He only had 2 losses and 1 stoppage.

-lyle 63% ko rate, only 3 losses and only 1 stoppage to the great ali. despite having 2 years of ring rust and losing his confidence foreman proved he could get off the floor to win a brutal war.

-frazier rematch "frazier was washed up, yada yada yada" but you guys insist "power is the last thing to go" right? Dont shift the goal posts now. He actually did better in this fight than the first one!

-agosto 61% bounced up and down like a yo yo.

No one on this list except lyle managed to drop foreman and none of them stopped him obviously. 46 fights in his first career, faced 7 punchers who all had winning records. He took what they dished out and finished them. Even if we stop right here, can anyone name multiple heavyweights who faced 7 dangerous punchers and won all 7 times without getting stopped?

Second career. Keep in mind foreman is 40+ years old.

-hitz 63% ko rate. Winning record, only 1 prior stoppage.

-fuliangi 83% ko rate. Winning record, 3 previous stoppages

-bert cooper 71% KO rate. Cooper had been knocking guys out silly and later proved he had elite power against holyfield. Trained by frazier, this was still a dangerous fight to take regardless of the benefit of hindsight. At the time he had a winning record and only 4 losses.

-cooney 80% ko rate. Again, very dangerous puncher. He did not need to fight him but it helped establish some credibility to his critics. Foreman was stunned by a hook to the chest but never went down and scored a brutal ko by uppercut/right cross combo.

-rodriguez 67% ko rate. Winning record, only 3 losses.

-anderson 77% ko rate. Winning record, 3 losss

-holyfield 85% ko rate. 2 weight class champ, olympian, undedeated, undisputed. Nuff said. Couldnt ko a 42 year old man.

-ellis 88% ko rate undefeated fighter. Dangerous for a tune up.

-alex stewart 90% ko rate holy $#!%. Why foreman decided to take on such a dangerous guy is beyond me. Winning record, 3 losses to only elte level guys. Stewart had incredibly sharp knuckles and dynamite in both hands. Foremans face was extremely puffy and bruisrd at the end. This was the worst foreman had looked since the lyle and ali fights. Yet...he didnt go down. He refused to. Went the distance but managed to drop him.

-coetzer 63% ko rate winning record 4 losses 2 stoppages

-morrison 86% ko rate, only one loss. Wbo champ. Morrison couldnt put a dent in foreman.

-mike moore 86% ko rate, undefeated southaw, 2 weight class world champ. Lineal heavywight champ. Nuff said. Landed a lot but couldnt stop a 45 year old man and lost his belt by knockout

-grimsley 90% ko rate undefeated

-savarese 83% ko rate undefeated

-briggs 80% ko rate. A future champ, only one loss. Set the record for highest 1st round kos. Couldnt put a dent in foreman. Clearly a robbery.

15 punchers. Many of them were undedeated, all had winning records. Some of them were current or future champs. Several gave other guys in the top ten serious fights.

Tyson was stopped 5x and avoided most of the big hitters of his era. Foreman was stopped once and faced far more big hitters. He obviously has the better chin.