I dont think Ward is a top boxer. That doesnt mean not a top fighter.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Aug 27, 2017.


  1. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Todd498,

    Swatted away?

    Brilliant.

    Yeah, let's stick to boxing, I've embarrassed you enough.


    Andre did like to stack things in his favour.

    He has a huge ego, and he was in a position to call the shots.

    I can understand why you don't like him.

    It doesn't matter.

    He still has a great resume.

    A resume that's superior to Sven's. And you can't hold Sven's resume in higher regard, just on the grounds that you hate Andre.
     
  2. JohnnyDrama99

    JohnnyDrama99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I honestly see your point, but what Andre does is in fact boxing. It's not brawling because there's control and strategy incorporated into the style he's perfected.

    Brawling is chaotic and visceral...There's not a measured approach or real game plan, just madnesses that ensues for a brawler. The strategy for a brawler is a clustering of pressure and wild punches that aren't set up.

    Is Andre's style aesthetically pleasing? Not really...he has moments, but there's a method to his offensive approach. It's crafty and difficult to anticipate. He likes the physicality of fighting so he wrestles a lot on the inside which wears on his opponents...it frustrates them and is physically as well as mentally taxing.

    Is he dirty....I'd say he is, a little bit. I think his take on boxing is it's a rough sport and there's going to be times where butts, elbows and some punches that stray low, happen. The science behind the style Ward has is it's versatile. He's comfortable on the inside but has the skills, timing and savvy to operate on the outside.

    When Ward is on his level, he's completely in control of where the battles in each round take place. One of the best ring generals in the sport, in my opinion. He will chose to make it a phone booth fight one half of the round, then reset and make it a fight at range that he controls.

    Again, it's not very crowd pleasing because much of the tactics used are subtle and deliberately disguised. To most, it just looks like a lot of wrestling, holding and hugging. It's actually effective infighting. It really boils down to the minutia that gets lost and under appreciated in Wards style.

    I get why it's hard to appreciate or acknowledge because we are visual creatures. We are drawn to beautiful things....women, cars, pictures....boxing. Ward's style is not what anyone would call, beautiful. But it's still art...It would probably be best compared to abstract art. Most people who look at a piece of abstract art think it's a mess...that it's ugly. But for a very small focused group who are art enthusiasts, they find it beautiful. They see this style art through a different scope
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
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  3. JohnnyDrama99

    JohnnyDrama99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lol....I get what you mean. Was just funny when I noticed it
     
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  4. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    I wrote that on purpose.

    Ha!

    I've just edited it.

    Not that it will make any difference to Bailey.
     
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  5. Loudon

    Loudon Loyal Member Full Member

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    Does he possess a better resume than Sven?
     
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2017
  6. JohnnyDrama99

    JohnnyDrama99 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think so. The super six Tournament was huge for Wards legacy. Then of course Kovalev.
     
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  7. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Theres the post after. Right on queue lol
     
  8. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Oh big time. He has a good resume and beat some decent opposition. Look at how Hopkins MW reign is looked upon. Ottkes reign is very comparable
     
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  9. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Thought I would point out how Loudon cant debate and just repeats himself to try and change peoples opinions.
    I decided to look at this post and then go back through the first few lines.

    This post
    A previous part of a post on this very thread
    This post
    A previous part of a post on this very thread
    Now notice how he has posted the same thing again when I replied previously

    Point proven above
    You havent found one respected poster either lol. You tried using Dino as some support and we know how he is thought of on ESB and thats another thing... You seem to need support as if you are weak when discussing this matter.


    Heres how it goes...

    I agreed Ward has some better singular wins (do you get I agree with that when you post again about it?) but not overall when you look at the whole of Ottkes career
    I gave you the Douglas/Wilder example and you say you understand that but could reply to it.

    You point to Ward having been a 2 weight champ which is great but fail to be able to respond when I say Broner is a 3 weight champ but I doubt you rate him higher.

    So you understand the Douglas/Wilder analogy and dont disagree but refuse to even comprehend it with Ottke and Ward. Why? Because it doesnt suit you and you cant admit to being pwned


    Except for Kovalev, I think many Ward beat were past their best even if not shot.

    Faded end of career boiled down G Johnson took Froch to a Mdec, so could prime G Johnson be a tougher win?

    I rate -
    Ottkes win against Mundine as greater than Wards over Abraham
    Ottkes win over Butler over Wards over Dawson
    Ottkes win over Reid greater than Wards over Bika
    Ottkes 2 wins over prime Brewer and Tate win over Wards win over past best Froch
    Ottkes win over Starie above Wards over Barrera
    Ottkes wins over Markussen Tate and Larsen combined above Wards win over faded Kessler (not prime)
    Ottkes wins over Branco LHW champ, Johnson LHW champ, Mitchell SMW champ, Krajnc MW champ, over Kovalev

    This seems to concern you.
    What was Kovalevs best win because Ottke beat a prime G Johnson who stopped a favoured R Jones at LHW and beat tarver who you rated
     
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  10. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    This is why someone who doesnt have a clue shouldnt be posting

    Ottke also unified with a rival champ. See what I mean about you not having a clue? Probably not. Cant imagine you being any brighter than Loudon.

    If you know the division or was watching some years back, you would know Ottke beat some very relevant SMWs at the time

    fans mention Froch as a win for Ward (which they should) but fail to note how Froch was coming off a debatable win over a faded boiled down G Johnson that Ottke beat more clearly when prime which sets the bar in difference.
    Look at the overall
    Ottke made 21 title defences and was a winner of 22 world title fights

    C Brewer the then IBF SMW champ for the title,
    C Brewer again former IBF SMW champ and world class
    G Johnson who went on to become the Ring & IBF LHW champ
    S Branco who went on to become the WBA LHW champ
    A Mundine who went on to become the 2 time WBA SMW champ
    B Mitchell the then WBA SMW champ and 2 time WBA champ
    R Reid the former WBC SMW champ and still world class
    A Krajnc the former WBO MW champ
    M Larsen world class who went on to become European champ
    R Markussen world class who went on to become European champ
    T Tate beaten twice
    D Starie
    J Butler

    As for the alt theory. Yes I think you are an alt with that daft name you have given yourself
     
  11. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    This is a good post even if I dont agree with every part of it. Will give it a LIKE because of how well it is written.
    I do understand what you are trying to say and dont disagree with
    Which is why I wrote good brawler.
    I think the difficulty I have is that elbows are not in the rules of boxing. Neither is hitting low or using the head as a weapon.
    Breaking the rules is not boxing within the rules
     
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  12. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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    Look at Loudon trying to get people with him lol
     
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  13. DONT B SCARED

    DONT B SCARED Pimpin Aint Easy Full Member

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    Any decent poster doesn't need the 2-3 morons liking your posts. Now run along and stop cluttering the forum with your nonsense
     
  14. Outstock

    Outstock PBR Full Member

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    Robin Reid stood in front of Ottke afraid that he would get disqualified if he landed a punch on his head.
    Ottke used track sized rings so he could squirm and prance away from his opponents.
    The names Ottke beat were all past their best when he fought them and he still struggled to beat them decisively.
    He never once called out or even mentioned Calzaghe's name in all his post fight interviews.
    When the demand for that fight was at its highest he packed up and retired.
    Okke was a utter joke.
     
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  15. DONT B SCARED

    DONT B SCARED Pimpin Aint Easy Full Member

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    Oh I forgot the great Byron Mitchell lol maybe the best fighter on his resume but after Sven won a close split decision Mitchell went 4-9 with all the losses by KO. The rest is just you trying pumping to pump up the opposition. I will give him credit for his longetivity and cherry picking opponents and getting out of the game undefeated and seemingly with his health which is the smartest thing a fighter can do. Hopkins who you thinks Middleweight resume wasn't as good as him went thru a similar stage as Ottke but eventually fought better opponents something Ottke never did. Please go ahead and give us another long reply telling us how great his opponents were but while you do tell us why he had only 6 stoppages from 36 fights.As for your calling me an Alt account its just behind recent join date and post account as a pathetic response but I'm sure the mods are able to see by IP address or something if you would like to back up your **** with a wager?