I don't understand why people say Holmes got robbed twice against Spinks.

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Baclava, Sep 30, 2013.


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  1. Baclava

    Baclava Active Member Full Member

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    I go on youtube and see again some comments which say that the Larry Holmes-Michael Spinks fights were robberies. I just don't get it.
    I scored both of those fights for Michael Spinks. I remember I had Spinks winning the first fight by 1 or 2 points, and I had the 2nd one either 8 rounds to 7 or 9 rounds to 6 for Spinks: Holmes won the first 5 rounds in the rematch and after that it was all Spinks and he won at least 8 of the last 10 rounds.

    So even though both fights were close, I really don't understand why people can score those fights for Holmes by a wide margin and call it a highway robbery.
    I am one of the biggest Holmes fans ever, and I thought Holmes vs Norton was a draw. Holmes vs Witherspoon/Carl Williams was a draw and a one point win for Holmes (I don't remember which of the 2 fights I scored a draw).

    And I had Spinks edging both fights against Larry.
     
    Baclava, Sep 30, 2013
    Baclava, Sep 30, 2013
    #1
  2. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    The first fight was a clear win for Spinks 2nd fight was closer in my memory although I did not think Holmes did enough to take the title back, just as Holmes had close wins over Williams and Witherspoon in fact many thought he lost I personally don't think you take a title away in a fight that can go either way...a draw is usually the best result but the judges always see a different fight.....I will watch fight 2 again but I am almost sure Holmes did not do enough to win it.
     
    Bummy Davis, Sep 30, 2013
    Bummy Davis, Sep 30, 2013
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  3. AnthonyJ74

    AnthonyJ74 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I thought Larry got outworked in both fights, but the second fight was closer. Holmes blames the judges and his big mouth for his two losses against Spinks, but I blame Holmes' fading stamina and lack of workrate. In fight two, Holmes started fast and won the first few rounds, but after that, Spinks started doing his thing. Plus, Holmes deserved to lose for fighting a guy like Spinks in the first place when there were other, better, more dangerous fighters around at the time.
     
    AnthonyJ74, Sep 30, 2013
    AnthonyJ74, Sep 30, 2013
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  4. markclitheroe

    markclitheroe TyrellBiggsnumberonefan. Full Member

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    Baclava..thanks again for the Biggs v Mason fight..
    To answer this i think most people think that to take away a legends title you have to win clearly...Ali for example got the benefit of doubt on at least one occasion...but yes..judged objectively i think Spinks narrowly won both fights.
     
    markclitheroe, Sep 30, 2013
    markclitheroe, Sep 30, 2013
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  5. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Holmes was outboxed...outworked in fight one. Fight two Larry came out meaning business and hurt Spinks several times early. I thought for sure he had rewon the title at fights end. I thought it was a very bad decision.
     
    HOUDINI, Sep 30, 2013
    HOUDINI, Sep 30, 2013
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  6. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I just watched the second bout...first 5 rounds. It's as I remember...Holmes swept these rounds and more or less spilt the last 10 rounds for the clear win. Order an had it 144-141 Holmes and SRL who was also calling the fight felt Holmes rewon the title. It was one of the worst robberies I ever saw in my 40 plus years involved with the sport. Horrible decision and I was a Spinks fan.
     
    HOUDINI, Sep 30, 2013
    HOUDINI, Sep 30, 2013
    #6
  7. tommy the hat

    tommy the hat Active Member Full Member

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    Holmes lost the first fight with Michael Spinks, but he was robbed of victory in the second fight IMO.
     
    tommy the hat, Sep 30, 2013
    tommy the hat, Sep 30, 2013
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  8. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lederman so red the bout 144-141. He also gave Larry the first 5 rounds.
     
    HOUDINI, Sep 30, 2013
    HOUDINI, Sep 30, 2013
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  9. Baclava

    Baclava Active Member Full Member

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    absolutely true, I saw it the same way: Holmes won the first 5 rounds and after that Spinks won basically every round except maybe 1 or 2 at the most. So worst case Spinks won 8 rounds to 7 on my scorecard.
     
    Baclava, Sep 30, 2013
    Baclava, Sep 30, 2013
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  10. Baclava

    Baclava Active Member Full Member

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    Jan 9, 2013
    EDIT: I mixed up the first and the 2nd fight in my original post, but I still had Spinks winning both of them.
     
    Baclava, Sep 30, 2013
    Baclava, Sep 30, 2013
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  11. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Spinks won the first fight. He beat Larry to the punch consistantly.

    The second fight was a robbery in my opinion. I thought Larry Holmes won the belt back.
     
    ETM, Sep 30, 2013
    ETM, Sep 30, 2013
    #11
  12. rinsj

    rinsj Active Member Full Member

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    Geeze, this debate again. Ok, here goes. The second fight with Spinks I felt was clear as day.

    HOLMES: 1,2,3,4,5,7,9,11,14

    SPINKS: 6,8,10,12,13,15

    144-141 HOLMES

    End of
     
    rinsj, Oct 1, 2013
    rinsj, Oct 1, 2013
    #12
  13. Baclava

    Baclava Active Member Full Member

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    I also remember giving Holmes the first 5 rounds, so I rewatched all the rounds after the 5th which you gave to Holmes:
    Round 7: I gave it to Holmes also.
    Round 9: mmmh. Very close, I think Spinks might have edged it. Holmes seems to hurt him at the beginning but if you forget the commentary, then it doesn't look like Spinks is really hurt for more than a few seconds. Spinks lands quite a few crisp punches in this round.
    Round 11: Spinks won this round. I do not understand really why you give that round to Holmes. Look at the whole 3 minutes, the activity and who landed more punches.
    Round 14: very difficult round: Spinks totally and clearly dominates the first half of the round, then gets hurt, goes on his bicycle and comes back with a flurry at the end, fighting back. But I can give that round to Holmes.

    So....I scored round 9 and round 11 of those 4 rounds to Spinks. So I would have the fight 8 rounds to 7 for Spinks.
     
    Baclava, Oct 1, 2013
    Baclava, Oct 1, 2013
    #13
  14. RockysSplitNose

    RockysSplitNose Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Will have to watch them again but from memory gave first fight to Spinks pretty clearly and the second one was very close think I may have switched between giving it to Spinks by maybe a round or scoring it a draw - but that aside I don't aspire to this idea that you don't take a title if a fight is very close - I score round by round and a win is win full stop whether it's a win by 1 round or whether it's by 3 rounds? If a fight hinges on the last round then for me whoever wins that last round wins the fight whether or not they came into the fight with the belt or not
     
    RockysSplitNose, Oct 1, 2013
    RockysSplitNose, Oct 1, 2013
    #14
  15. Titan1

    Titan1 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you say things against certain people, the higher ups can make it "hard" for you, as in the case of Larry Holmes, supposedly.
     
    Titan1, Oct 1, 2013
    Titan1, Oct 1, 2013
    #15
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