I have Haye above Ward P4P

P4P is so subjective your list could really look like anything. Doesn't matter.

 

Well yes, two weight champion and pretty much the lineal cw champion at one point.

I agree with you, although I forsee a greater future for Ward than I see for Haye.

 

tut tut, you do realize that haye doesn't hold an american passport don't you :deal

 

This.

 

Accomplishments are all good but who did he beat for those accomplishments? I don't think Mormeck (especially the version that Haye fought), Ruiz, Maccarinelli, Barrett or any of those guys are as good as Kessler.

 

I think I agree but Green is awesome and will be a p4p staple for many years.

 

I agree, If Haye ever actually stepped up, fought AND beat a Klit where would you guys have him? If he beat Wlad I would put him at 6 P4P if he beat Vit I would have him at 10, off topic I know but im interested to hear what people think.

Right now Haye must be about 13 on my list, Ward around 20.

 

to be honest i dont have either on my pound for pound list kessler was one of the best super middleweights but on no ones pound for pound lists and aside from him ward has beaten no one haye has had more success and beaten more champions but with this lot of cruiserweights and heavyweights (aside from the klitschkos) i dont consider that worthy of round for pound status i think both have potential hayes speed and power is incredible for a big man but i think his chin and stamina will let him down and im not sure about ward yet he doesnt seem to be overly quick or overly powerful or overly strong although neither was hopkins and i think ward has some similarities with nard in that he uses his ringsmarts to beat people despite not being the most athletically gifted fighter nard dominated the middleweight divison for a decade and i see ward as having that sort of potential but i think he needs to win the super six and haye to beat a klitschko for either to be ranked pound for pound in my opinion

 

This is why P4P as a concept in forming stupid little lists and discussions is meaningless. Yes, Haye has accomplished more if you add his CW credentials to his dubious HW credentials (at the end of the day, it must still be conceded that he DID move up and win a version of the championship...) but Ward is obviously the better pound-for-pound fighter in head to head terms...he's just had less time to get things done so far.

 

Haye at cruiser: had two title fights against nobodies in the weakest division in all of boxing. Not enough to get him ranked int he top 50 P4P.
Haye at heavy: had two title fights against fighters widely considered as some of the worst champions ever in the history of the division. Neither of his opponents were in the top 50 P4P, in fact they would have been scratching to get into the top 100.

What has Haye done? He hasn't beaten anyone in the top 50 P4P. Valuev would be struggling to get into the top 150 P4P, and Haye struggled to beat him!

How the hell does Haye get catapulted into the top 20?

You could rank Haye just inside the top 50, and even up to 30 before I would consider you a total idiot. If you had him close to 30 it's because you bought into hype. If you have him higher, you are stupid.

 

Ward is a better fighter.

 

you say ward is obviously better than haye he just hasnt had time to prove it which is what my point was he looks to be more talented but we dont know how good he is till he proves it hes a potential pound for punder until he wins the super six but you have to count what people have accomplished when considering pound for pound cos some guys look awesome beating no bodies and handpicked opponents but come unstuck when they fight a top guy so i dont think you can rank him till hes done that it doesnt matter how good he looks against green and miranda they arent top guys hes beaten one top guy and thats kessler but he was nowhere near the top 20 pound for pound so its far to early to rank him
mormeck maccarenelli ruiz and valuev although not great are all world level guys so beating them proves haye belongs at the top and they are the sort of guys you need to beat but haye wont be pound for pound till he beats a klitschko (which i dont think he will) so i think in two years ward will be well above him pound for pound but you cant rank him above him yet

 

Maccarinelli is not much better a win than Miranda. :yep

 

Haye is very hard to rate. He hasn't fought any elite competition, especially not in their prime.

That doesn't mean Haye can't be a great champ that deserves recognition across weight classes in the future, he simply has managed to hand pick opposition in his career thus far that does not allow many conclusions other than that he managed to win a few belts.

Big difference between winning a belt and belonging in a P4P list.