I have Marquez 1-0-1 against Pac. After that, he's my p4p #1

You can have JMM as no.1 in your personal list if you believe he beat Pac. Ring Mag go by official results but it doesn't mean you have to take their list as gospel. FFS they've got Caballero and Darchinyan in their top 10 atsch.

 

I wouldn't argue with you on this one McGrain. Personally I genuinely cannot split Pac and Marquez at the moment. I scored the first Pac-JMM fight to Pacquiao by a point or two, scored the second to Marquez by a point. But just like Hopkins-Calzaghe, when a fight is so close as a one-point margin of victory in my eyes, I don't think that is justification enough to overturn the judges' decision (I would only do so in the event of a flat-out robbery like I believe Whitaker-Chavez was) so I prefer to exclude it from my considerations entirely. Over the past few years Pacquiao has been more impressive and beaten better fighters, over the past year it has been Marquez. I think Pacquiao is not given enough credit for the Oscar win so I am keeping it at joint at the moment. De La Hoya beat Forbes arguably more convincingly than Berto did in Forbes's next fight - and that fight was at a paltry 3lbs north of welter. I don't believe Oscar is shot, I think he overtrained and did not have the energy to cope with Pacquiao's astonishing speed and movement at ww. If Oscar fights again, I believe he will prove he still has something left and people will give Pac more credit for a brilliant performance. Anyway I have digressed, my point is I would not argue with anyone who had Pac or Marquez ahead just now, I have it dead even in anticipation of a third fight.

 

I scored the first PAc JMM fight a draw and had JMM winning the second by a slim margin so JMM top of my personal p4p list by a very narrow margin. I got no problem with people who gave Pac either fight or have him p4p #1 though as both fights so close you could score them either way.

One thing for sure, we gotta see a 3rd fight to settle this once and for all!

 

pac is a 5-weight (112, 122, 126, 130 and 135) champ and a 3-time lineal champ @112, 126 and 130 while fighting across 10 weight classes from light fly (106) all the way up to welter.

jmm is a 3-weight champ (126, 130 and 135) and a lineal champ @135.

pac is already a top 45 ATG while jmm is probably now in the 90s (if ever) but still below both mab and erik morales.

 

True I think your ATG rankings of them are ballpark about right.

But, isn't p4p about who is the best fighter right now at this moment in time, not how they fit in historically or who they fought 5 years ago?

Going by that logic you could still say Oscar should be ranked highly p4p as his resume is stacked or if Hearns does have a come back fight is he then p4p #1?

Just playing devils advocate, I don't have a prob with you or anyone having Pac #1 ahead of JMM, though IMO JMM slightly edges it on current form

 

on current form, i still think pac is ahead of jmm. when pac wins regardless of the competition, it is almost always via dominating fashion. he wins the vast majority of the rounds and then KOs his opponents. jmm on the other hand has had recent KO victories but these fights were very close leading up to those KOs. and barely winning against a very faded barrera whom pac completely dominated twice definitely doesn't help enhance jmm's current form.

that's why i think p4p #1 is still currently for pac to lose. jmm is now a solid #2 after this fight, having separated himself from bhop after the retirement of calzaghe. jmm only becomes #1 in the event that pac loses or retires.

 

Excellent post.

Totally agree with the scoring error and the fact that Pac was legitimate winner of the first fight. I actually scored the first fight for Pac by 5 points. Second fight a bit closer, but still had Pac winning close decision.

 

I had marquez winning against pacman in their second battle. But its not a major injustice as pac was awesome too, but i still think marquez was better. I think that pac has made a big mistake in taking on the hitman at 140. I give pac a chance, but hes never fought against the pressure and power that hatton brings. Having said that, its also possible for the pacman to take the hitman to the cleaners. but i just think that its more likely that hatton will have his way with what is really a super featherweight.

 

Scar, that's a pretty lame of you. I'm disappointed. If you really think Pac has proved his superiority in the ring against Marquez, you're crazy.

People are such hypocrites. The same fans who say "Pac officially won" will cry robbery for Whitaker/Chavez, because they are Pac fans. We can't use this bull**** reasoning whenever it suits us. You either follow the record books 100% or use your own ****ing judgment.

EVERY legitimate source I've spoken to or read about had Marquez winning AT LEAST one of the two bouts.

edit - Vitor, your posts are just as stupid.

We REALLY need a special '*******' forum to contain the mass of useless, uninformed posts.

 

And anybody who is bold enough to say that the DLH PAcquiao fought was a more difficult challenge than the Juan Diaz that Marquez fought, you are absolutely hopeless. Go to Pacland.com.

 

Ring magazine, as their noted so much in these P4P rankings, the editors present all scored the bout 115-112 for Marquez. So if you want to go that route and call Ring gospel, they have Marquez as superior to Pacquiao.

 

You interpret that as a commentary on De La Hoya being still solid giving Berto credit for a star in the making with explosive skill and talent.

I interpret that as an elite fighter, in De La Hoya, being correctly labeled as past it, by beating an extraordinarily miedocre fighter in assertive but not overly dominating fashion, whilst comparing the bout with Berto as proof that the young star is far far far overrated by fans and media for his own good.

 

are you saying that the second fight was a robbery?! how can it be when the fight was very close and it was 1 point either way. the polls about that fight in this very same forum say the same thing: very close, could've gone either way and definitely no robbery.

 

ring magazine is owned by GBP, the promoter of jmm. so, they're not exactly impartial, are they?

 

no stupid, they don't. check the polls immediately after the fight, on every boxing forum except pacland. it's at least 75% voting for marquez.