i hear the sounds of laughter in wales....

IrnBruMan · Oct 21, 2008

AzteK Warrior said:

You are out of your ****ing mind.. Don't forget it's always been Calzaghe the one who has shown no interest of fighting Pavlik.. You can claim victory in you delusional fantasies... but that's where everything stops...:good
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FFS man

Is Calzaghe supposed to fight every ****ing US fighter that comes along that you ****s think has a chance of beating him?

Hopkins showed why Pavlik doesn't deserve a fight with Calzaghe.

Accept it and move on - Pavlik has, that's why he's gone back to MW.

carias · Oct 21, 2008

vitesse349 said:

I can imagine the scene...

Joe and Enzo, sitting in front of the TV watching Pavlik take a beating from hopkins, laughing and shaking their heads. Enzo getting excited, joe shadow boxing between rounds etc.

Calzaghe would have beaten Pavlik easily, out thought him and made him look like the one dimentional fighter he is. We should be hailing hopkins AND calzaghe now.
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The only person who deserves to be hailed after the fight is Hopkins. Calzaghe wasn't there and didn't win anything. Hopkins exposed Pavlik, Hopkins beat Pavlik. Joe didn't do ****, he just talked up a **** storm.

vitesse349 · Oct 22, 2008

AzteK Warrior said:

You are out of your ****ing mind.. Don't forget it's always been Calzaghe the one who has shown no interest of fighting Pavlik.. You can claim victory in you delusional fantasies... but that's where everything stops...:good
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Calzaghe didnt "duck" pavlik. He just stated that he wasnt good enough to fight him, and that was proved on saturday night. How anyone cannot see that Joe beats pavlik easily is blind. Pavliks style is made for Calzaghe. Joe loves walk forward plodders, and would box rings around him on the way to a wide UD. Its as plain and simple as that.

Most of us already knew that before pavlik fought hopkins, but its taken hopkins to beat up pavlik to show some of the rest of you. A shot roy jones will give calzaghe more trouble than Pavlik because of the stylistic match up.

vitesse349 · Oct 22, 2008

i totally agree with all this by the way.

IrnBruMan said:

Jaysus Kee-rist...here it is for the dummies:

Hopkins beat Pavlik by using his footspeed, handspeed, elusiveness and workrate. he used angles to confuse Pavlik, and was never there for him to hit.

As a result, Pavlik looked pedestrian in the ring, couldn't get into his rhythm, and was lucky to have landed 10 punches in the whole fight.

Calzaghe's hands and feet are faster than Hopkins' and he has a far greater workrate. Granted, he may not be as elusive as Hopkins, but as yorkshire boy stated, he has a hell of a chin.

He also uses angles to great advantage, rarely being hit twice by the same punch, or at least knowing his chin can hanlde the same punch until he's figure dout how to nullify it - have a look at how he nullified Kessler's arsenal over a period of 4 or 5 rounds - first the overhand right was taken away, then the uppercut, and so on until Kessler was left swinging at air and blinking in confusion at the spot Calzaghe had been in when he launched the punch. Meanwhile, Calzaghe was a foot to the left or right firing a combination at Kessler's head and body.

Calzaghe also nullified Hopkins' arsenal - after that right hand in the first round, Hopkins was unable to land another clean hard shot on Calzaghe for the rest of the fight, because Calzaghe used his footspeed and angles to always be in too awkward a place for Hopkins to be able to land a sweet punch.

Pavlik is an orthodox 1-2 fighter, much like Kessler, but I rate Kessler higher than Pavlik because his punches are faster, crisper, and more accurate than Pavlik's.

Joe figured Kessler out in 3-4 rounds and won easily.

He would do the same to Pavlik, except sooner, and would possibly drop him on the way to a UD. It would be like Calzaghe vs Lacy.

It's nothing to with styles making fights, it's to do with the man with the greater hand and foot speed and workrate being too good for the one-dimensional and robotic Pavlik.
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vitesse349 · Oct 22, 2008

seriously....the only way pavlik could beat Calzaghe, is if joe boiled down to middleweight, and was a skeleton going into the ring. I dont believe kellys punching power carries up to super-middle, let alone light heavy. At middleweight pavlik is a big puncher, and i hope he dominates the division. I like pavlik, and there are many fighters out there he is capable of beating, but joe calzaghe isnt one of them.

yorkshire_boy · Oct 22, 2008

IrnBruMan said:

Jaysus Kee-rist...here it is for the dummies:

Hopkins beat Pavlik by using his footspeed, handspeed, elusiveness and workrate. he used angles to confuse Pavlik, and was never there for him to hit.

As a result, Pavlik looked pedestrian in the ring, couldn't get into his rhythm, and was lucky to have landed 10 punches in the whole fight.

Calzaghe's hands and feet are faster than Hopkins' and he has a far greater workrate. Granted, he may not be as elusive as Hopkins, but as yorkshire boy stated, he has a hell of a chin.

He also uses angles to great advantage, rarely being hit twice by the same punch, or at least knowing his chin can hanlde the same punch until he's figure dout how to nullify it - have a look at how he nullified Kessler's arsenal over a period of 4 or 5 rounds - first the overhand right was taken away, then the uppercut, and so on until Kessler was left swinging at air and blinking in confusion at the spot Calzaghe had been in when he launched the punch. Meanwhile, Calzaghe was a foot to the left or right firing a combination at Kessler's head and body.

Calzaghe also nullified Hopkins' arsenal - after that right hand in the first round, Hopkins was unable to land another clean hard shot on Calzaghe for the rest of the fight, because Calzaghe used his footspeed and angles to always be in too awkward a place for Hopkins to be able to land a sweet punch.

Pavlik is an orthodox 1-2 fighter, much like Kessler, but I rate Kessler higher than Pavlik because his punches are faster, crisper, and more accurate than Pavlik's.

Joe figured Kessler out in 3-4 rounds and won easily.

He would do the same to Pavlik, except sooner, and would possibly drop him on the way to a UD. It would be like Calzaghe vs Lacy.

It's nothing to with styles making fights, it's to do with the man with the greater hand and foot speed and workrate being too good for the one-dimensional and robotic Pavlik.
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Well explained - agree 100%

For those still picking Pavlik to win, can someone please detail why as above? All i've seen is stuff like "STFU Pavlik KO Calslappy R1!!" etc.

What about Pavlik's style allows him to beat Calzaghe? An intelligent outline would be interesting to read, if any of you have one.

socrates · Oct 22, 2008

vitesse349 said:

I can imagine the scene...

Joe and Enzo, sitting in front of the TV watching Pavlik take a beating from hopkins, laughing and shaking their heads. Enzo getting excited, joe shadow boxing between rounds etc.

Calzaghe would have beaten Pavlik easily, out thought him and made him look like the one dimentional fighter he is. We should be hailing hopkins AND calzaghe now.
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Though Pavlik appeared to be more formidable than Lacey in terms of record (though not much in it), Calzaghe's performance against Lacey eclipses Hopkins by far.

socrates · Oct 22, 2008

IrnBruMan said:

Jaysus Kee-rist...here it is for the dummies:

Hopkins beat Pavlik by using his footspeed, handspeed, elusiveness and workrate. he used angles to confuse Pavlik, and was never there for him to hit.

As a result, Pavlik looked pedestrian in the ring, couldn't get into his rhythm, and was lucky to have landed 10 punches in the whole fight.

Calzaghe's hands and feet are faster than Hopkins' and he has a far greater workrate. Granted, he may not be as elusive as Hopkins, but as yorkshire boy stated, he has a hell of a chin.

He also uses angles to great advantage, rarely being hit twice by the same punch, or at least knowing his chin can hanlde the same punch until he's figure dout how to nullify it - have a look at how he nullified Kessler's arsenal over a period of 4 or 5 rounds - first the overhand right was taken away, then the uppercut, and so on until Kessler was left swinging at air and blinking in confusion at the spot Calzaghe had been in when he launched the punch. Meanwhile, Calzaghe was a foot to the left or right firing a combination at Kessler's head and body.

Calzaghe also nullified Hopkins' arsenal - after that right hand in the first round, Hopkins was unable to land another clean hard shot on Calzaghe for the rest of the fight, because Calzaghe used his footspeed and angles to always be in too awkward a place for Hopkins to be able to land a sweet punch.

Pavlik is an orthodox 1-2 fighter, much like Kessler, but I rate Kessler higher than Pavlik because his punches are faster, crisper, and more accurate than Pavlik's.

Joe figured Kessler out in 3-4 rounds and won easily.

He would do the same to Pavlik, except sooner, and would possibly drop him on the way to a UD. It would be like Calzaghe vs Lacy.

It's nothing to with styles making fights, it's to do with the man with the greater hand and foot speed and workrate being too good for the one-dimensional and robotic Pavlik.
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mr.weller once again posts a top reply.:good

icemax · Oct 22, 2008

AzteK Warrior said:

You are out of your ****ing mind.. Don't forget it's always been Calzaghe the one who has shown no interest of fighting Pavlik.. You can claim victory in you delusional fantasies... but that's where everything stops...:good
Click to expand...

Wrong :deal

On a Setanta news program in January he said that the fight he wanted after Hopkins was Pavlik...it was pointless fighting Jones as he was way past his best.

In April, just prior to his fight with Hopkins, on an HBO pre fight special he was asked:

Interviewer: "I know you are not looking beyond this fight but what are your future plans?"

Cal: "Basically, this fight and then maybe one more fight.(Directly into the camera) The fight I am looking for is Pavlik. At the end of the day Kelly Pavlik is a great fighter, he's gonna be a great fighter, and his style..."

Interviewer: "I talked to him last week and he would love to fight you as well"

The really amusing thing about this is that in true Calzaghe style he managed to duck the man who he had called out on TV twice, quite an acrobatic feat by any standards

san rafael · Oct 22, 2008

yorkshire_boy said:

San Rafael - if you see this, i'd genuinely be really interested in hearing your thoughts. I've read quite a few of your posts and they are mainly intelligent, analytical posts and you know your stuff. Although Calzaghe and Hopkins are very different, I just don't see how this particular fight could go down majorly different to the Hopkins - Pavlik fight (for the reasons stated above).
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Alright, well, that's a solid breakdown you've got. I like it. You see, it was a formality that we needed. Instead of all the empty claims somebody had to lay it out in actual terms. I think you did a fine job. Ultimately, we don't know where some of Joe's holes meet Pavlik's openings - but all in all I'd favor Calzaghe on the readjustment anyway. That's where the argument ends, because we know Pavlik is short on alternative gameplans.

Strike · Oct 22, 2008

IrnBruMan said:

Jaysus Kee-rist...here it is for the dummies:

Hopkins beat Pavlik by using his footspeed, handspeed, elusiveness and workrate. he used angles to confuse Pavlik, and was never there for him to hit.

As a result, Pavlik looked pedestrian in the ring, couldn't get into his rhythm, and was lucky to have landed 10 punches in the whole fight.

Calzaghe's hands and feet are faster than Hopkins' and he has a far greater workrate. Granted, he may not be as elusive as Hopkins, but as yorkshire boy stated, he has a hell of a chin.

He also uses angles to great advantage, rarely being hit twice by the same punch, or at least knowing his chin can hanlde the same punch until he's figure dout how to nullify it - have a look at how he nullified Kessler's arsenal over a period of 4 or 5 rounds - first the overhand right was taken away, then the uppercut, and so on until Kessler was left swinging at air and blinking in confusion at the spot Calzaghe had been in when he launched the punch. Meanwhile, Calzaghe was a foot to the left or right firing a combination at Kessler's head and body.

Calzaghe also nullified Hopkins' arsenal - after that right hand in the first round, Hopkins was unable to land another clean hard shot on Calzaghe for the rest of the fight, because Calzaghe used his footspeed and angles to always be in too awkward a place for Hopkins to be able to land a sweet punch.

Pavlik is an orthodox 1-2 fighter, much like Kessler, but I rate Kessler higher than Pavlik because his punches are faster, crisper, and more accurate than Pavlik's.

Joe figured Kessler out in 3-4 rounds and won easily.

He would do the same to Pavlik, except sooner, and would possibly drop him on the way to a UD. It would be like Calzaghe vs Lacy.

It's nothing to with styles making fights, it's to do with the man with the greater hand and foot speed and workrate being too good for the one-dimensional and robotic Pavlik.
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Great post. I pretty much wrote that analysis on a potential fight a few months back and had about 15 people laughing and telling me I was a joke, the same people who said Pavlik was going to savage Hopkins.

Not only his Pavlik a straight line, predictable fighter but his footwork is CRAP. He does not move his feet with his punches, and even in his battering of Lockett you see this when he misses with a right hand; his whole body is dragged forward and off balance and he then has to re set himself to throw again. He is a counter punchers dream and anyone with quick hands and angles would have great success.

Calzaghe would have thrashed him, Kessler would drop 2 rounds at most and likely stop him late after a sound beating and provided Bute's chin is sturdy he whips him too.

Adaptation · Oct 22, 2008

If Joe was laughing in Pavlik vs Hopkins, imagine

Ricky watching Witter vs Bradley

And the one who laughed the most?

Mayweather watching Cotto vs Margarito.

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