I just read that Bert Sugar has Roy Jones 88th on his greatest fighters list

This is a stretch, he still beat some good fighters after 2000 and got a heavyweight belt, being the first former Middleweight champ to gain a heavyweight title in 100 years, then in his very next fight dropped back down to LHW against a very dangerous and motivated fighter and regained his LHW belts.:good

 

Hagler beat WW's moving up as well in his best wins. Leonard (arguable), Hearns, Duran (LW)...much like Hopkins wins against Tito, Wright, Oscar (LW).

You also have to take into account wins vs Johnson, Jackson, Echols, Joppy, Holmes, Taylor (arguably on both...I had him 1-1), Tarver, Pavlik, etc. Plus the titles...plus the fact that he fought EVERYONE in front of him (speaking on that...did you hear the Floyd interview with RA the Rugged Man? Its a must hear...hilarious).

I also have them close...with Bernard slightly ahead.

 

I'll put it to you this way, did Jones do anything after 2000 (Tarver, Ruiz) to make him eligible for a top 10 place in your judgment? It's also important to consider his defeats, and the manner in which he lost them.

 

That old dude sucks!!!!!!!
This list is a BS!!!!!!!
Where's the best ever: John The Quietman Ruiz?????

 

I've always said that historically the great Middleweights fight Welterweights moving up. It's been the glamor division for awhile now. I don't put a lot of stock in titles these days, for obvious reasons, but Hopkins rates highly because of his dominance and signature wins, much like Spinks. It's close - Hopkins still has some time left.

 

Im not saying anything about rankings, i was quoting you when you said all of his "good" work was done before 2000, and that is clearly not the case.:good

 

Fair enough. :good

 

These lists are always bad, although I do think Roy is a bit overrated. He never fought the best when he could have. What these all time lists prove is how the list makers has favorite fights. Jose Napoles was good ,but he is 33? And Hearns is 50? Hearns was a greater fighter than Napoles. Hearns beat Hill and Andries both at light heavyweight 30 pounds above the welt. limit. First man to win 4 and then 5 titles.

 

Am I going crazy or do you change your avatar alot?:nut

 

sugar's a senile old windbag, who has little insight and is only listened to because who else promotes themselves as a "boxing historian"

 

Can't stand Bert Sugar!

 

I'm the crazy one. It's some sort of disorder.

 

There was a time when people wanted no part of him, he went on HBO in the center of the ring before his fight with Brannon and called out all the super middleweights, Liles was one of them and was offered a 6 figure contract.

 

I have had mine for a while, but it is football season and the Colts are undefeated, I dare not take it down now.:happy

 

Not above Pernell Whitaker, sorry man.