I keep hearing the winner of Calzaghe/Pavlik becomes ring champ over 3 weights...

actually if joe loses it does create a very intersting situation regarding the ring title. because bot fighters will contest a sanctioned fight below the 175lb limit. should joe lose, the ring lhw title should rest in the hands of kp. i would love to see how ring handles this.

 

I don't think I have a personal bias. I'd be opposed to allowing Roy Jones -- one of my all-time favorites -- to do that in the hypothetical 2002 encounter against Hopkins as well.

No, the fighter doesn't have to weigh 175. Yes, he may not weigh more than 175.

My point remains that he must be *allowed* to weigh 175 in order for the bout to be contested at 175, and thus for the LHW title. That's the common sense. If they agree to fight at no more than 174, the LHW championship title still is not on the line, because the limit is 175 and not 174.

If Calzaghe and Kessler contract to fight at 168, they are not fighting a LHW fight. I'm struggling to understand why you (and The Ring, apparently) don't see this point.

You can't allow guys to draw weight divisions the way they feel like it. If you want to fight at 168, then by god, you are fighting at SMW. If you want to fight at 175, you are fighting at LHW.

To repeat, there are two components to weight classes:

1) Neither man can weigh more than the established limit for that division.

2) Both fighters must be allowed to fight up to the limit of the given division, in order for that division's title to be at stake.

In this example of a JC/KP fight at 168, No. 2 is being violated vis a vis the LHW championship.

And thus, the LHW title cannot possibly be at stake.

Common sense.

 

I was also EXTREMELY confused after reading the latest Ring issue. When I was done with it I was also under the impression that both of Joe's belts are on the line for a Pavlik fight. My question would be; what weight does this take place at to apply? I assumed if the fight took place at 175 then perhaps both belts are on the line, because obviously Pavlik can weigh in at 168. This **** is confusing....

 

follow me on this. i see what you are trying to say, but your closing yourself to certain facts. if the fight is at 168, both fighters have weighed in within the allowable weight for 175, as they can weigh up to 175. they are both within the rules. and a fight at 174, is still a title fight for a 175 title as both fighters are below the allowable weight.

that is why when you see catchweight fights, it is ussually above the weight of the champion in which case the title is not on the line.

case in point the pavlik taylor rematch was at a catchweight above 160 therfore no title was on the line.

at this time, there were no 175 implications. therefore, it was a 168 fight. if that fight were to happen today, it is a different story.

number 2 is not being violated, as long as 168 lbs is less than 175.

there is no minimum weight for any weight class therefore any fighter can compete in any weight class he pleases as long as he weighs in below that limit.

 

If you're going to be fair, only one division's belts can be on the line in any given fight. That's what The Ring needs to understand.

 

"follow me on this. i see what you are trying to say, but your closing yourself to certain facts. if the fight is at 168, both fighters have weighed in within the allowable weight for 175, as they can weigh up to 175. they are both within the rules. and a fight at 174, is still a title fight for a 175 title as both fighters are below the allowable weight."


The maximum allowable weight works both ways, as explained above. You can't weigh more than that, but you must be allowed to hit the maximum.

If you contract to fight at 168, that's maximum allowed weight. The maximum allowed weight for LHW is 175, so a 168-pound bout cannot determine the championship at 175, as divisions are determined by the maximum weights.

I'm not arguing that it hasn't be allowed to happen, but it should be allowed to happen, because it makes no sense whatsoever. It violates every logical notion as well as the fundamental sense of fair play.

If Roy had captured The Ring belt at HW and then dropped back to 175 and contracted to fight Sven Ottke at 175, by your logic both the LHW and HW belts are at stake.

And if Ottke manages to defeat a very drained Jones, he becomes your new heavyweight champion of the world. That tells you the rule doesn't make sense.

 

It says if Joe fights at 175 only the 175 belt is on the line (over 68), but if he wishes he could also drop down and defend the '68. Only glaring problem with the article is it pretty much says what "if"'s for Calzaghe victories and not what would happen if he lost at '68 to the '75 belt. I ASSUME from context that if the fighter to beat Calz at '68 did not have intentions to also fight at '75 the belt would be immediately vacant. Same should be the case if, say Pavlik won at '68 and went back to '60 without intending to defend at '68, it should go vacant again.

:yep :nut :nut :!:

 

But if either fighter is restricted from weighing 175, No. 2 is in fact being violated.

You seem to say this yourself when it comes to defenses, i.e., that Pavlik would have to defend against fighters at the 175-pound limit. Yet he would be able to win the title at something other than the 175-pound limit. Makes no sense.

If I tell you we are fighting at MW and then say you can't weigh more than 150 for the bout, we aren't actually fighting at MW, we are fighting at 150. The MW limit is 160. If you aren't allowed to fight me at a full 160, we are not fighting at MW.

If Kelly tells Joe he'll only fight him at 168 and will not fight him at a full 175, then they are not fighting at LHW/175.

This is much easier than you're making it.

 

you continu to use the word maximum. and you refue aknowledge facts. srl fought donny lalonde at 168 for both the 168 and 175 title. that is fact. and unless ottke was a ranked hw then no the hw title would not be on the line./

maximum=most. if you weigh 168 you are within the allowable weifht.

 

Yes!

He'd retain the 175-pound belt even in defeat at 168, as theoretically a fighter could drain himself badly to make a lower weight. If David Haye wins the lineal HW title and then drains to CW in a big-money fight against Pavlik, he should retain the HW title no matter what happens in that bout.

If they want to rematch at HW for that title, so be it.

 

thereis no minimum weight requirement

 

Have we got any clarification on this? I can't be ****ed trawling through this thread, and there still seems to be confusion

Surely Pavlik wouldn't become ring LHW champ, if the fight is at 168, and he's never fought at 175 :nut

Not that I'm not totally confident in Joe's chances :yep

 

sugar ray leonard became champion at 175 without ever having fought at that weight.

which is the exacrt same scenario we have here.

 

This is correct as long as the fight takes place at 168. Anyone who tells you any different doesn't know how weight factors into defending your titles.