I keep hearing the winner of Calzaghe/Pavlik becomes ring champ over 3 weights...

You continue to miss my point. The maximum weight for light heavyweight is 175 pounds. The maximum weight is not 168 pounds. The weight says "no more than" 175, but also -- and here's what you keep missing -- "up to" 175.

A contracted limit of 168 is not *up to* 175; it is *up to* 168. Those are different numbers and different divisions, no matter whether it's less-than or more-than. If the max ain't 175, it ain't a LHW fight.

And again, I didn't say it's never been allowed to happen, only that it shouldn't be allowed to happen because it's wrong and unfair.

And what does Ottke's ranking have to do with anything? Is Pavlik ranked at 175?

 

Which is total bull**** because it's illogical and cannot be defended.

The Ring can do what it wants, but they will fall prey to anyone who uses simple logic as to why that doesn't work.

 

why do you conveniently not address the fact that proves your theory wrong.

sugar ray leonard faced donny lalonde at 168 lb for BOTH the 168, and lalondes 175 title..

that is fact. not opinion. whether you feel it is right or wrong means nothing. it is the truth.

 

yes a fight contracted at 168 means up to 168. but the caveat is 175 also means not more than 175 and last i checked 168 is not more than 175

 

In the eyes of The Ring, that bastion of journalistic integrity. Sure. I've already said that The Ring can do whatever it wants with its bull**** titles. No strip. Fine. No common sense. Fine.

But to determine the *real* champ, subjectively (the only way) defined as The Man in a given division, you can't logically argue that a 160-pound fighter moving up to a 168-pound weight fight suddently becomes the overlord of fighters who fight at the 175-pound limit.

Otherwise, you could have Sven Ottke, victor of a weightdrained Jones at 175 and your proud representative of the HW title. I'm guessing The Ring would change its idiotic policy if that sort of scenario entered the picture.

 

According to Boxrec that's true, but that it happened doesn't mean that it was logical. The rankings organisations have done lots of things against logic, fair play, and their own rules.

Riddle me this: when Manny Pacquiao fights with a maximum allowed weight of 130 isn't he truly fighting at HW, CW, LHW, SMW, MW, LMW, WW, LWW, and LW as well, because he's below the maximum for those weights?

 

This is progress. Contracted at 168 makes it a SMW. Contracted at 175 maks it a LHW. If you contract a weight limit at all, you cannot have a HW title at stake.

The key is both in the max AND in the *up to*, as fighters must be allowed to fight at the stated maximum of their chosen weight class. If Calzaghe is not allowed to fight at the 175-pound limit, he is not fighting at LHW, which states without equivocation that a fighter can weight *up to* 175 pounds.

If he isn't allowed to do that, he isn't risking his LHW title. Pavlik gets choice of belts to pursue.

Actually, and this should be the subject of a different thread, Calzaghe isn't the rightful king at 175 anyway. He doesn't have the legit title as champ until he deals with Dawson's side of the equation.

The situation at 175 could become like the situation at 147 in about 18 months, if Joe steps down without losing a fight at 175.

 

to put it simply he could fight at any those weights at 130 if he chose to. common sense dictates it is not a healthy thing to do.

 

you can continue to argue your point, but history has already proven you wrong.

 

Yes of course, exactly, he could weigh anything he liked below the maximum allowed in fights contracted at those weights, but when he is contracted for 130, he is not fighting at those weights, and won't win titles in them (barring incredible corruption).

 

I read this as a concession from you. I stated a while back that The Ring can do what it wants; and that doesn't make it logical or right.

I'll finish up with this scenario, which seems to work for you and The Ring:

1) Pavlik defeats Calzaghe at 168 for both the SMW and LHW titles. He now possesses all three belts from 160-175.

2) Pavlik opts to drop both the MW and SMW belts, instead preferring to keep the belt at the higher weight. He challenges LHW Antonio Tarver, as he is required, but he stipulates that the bout must occur at a maximum weight of 160 pounds. The number 160 is BENEATH 175, so this is OK. Tarver takes the fight and kills himself to make 160, and gets summarily KOd.

3) Pavlik then challenges another LHW fight, Glen Johnson, to fight for the LHW title. Again, he insists the bout must be contested at a maximum of 160 pounds, which is BENEATH 175. Johnson refuses and looks elsewhere, as do several other LHWs, claiming they can't make 160.

4) Bored, Pavlik challenges Oscar De La Hoya to a fight for the LHW title, and ODLH -- money man that he is -- stipulates that the fight must happen at the 147-pound limit, which is BENEATH 175. Hoya takes advantage of an emaciated Pavlik and wins the LHW crown.

5) Looking for one final payday, Hoya challenges Manny Pacquiao to fight for the LHW title, agreeing that they will fight at a contracted weight of 140 pounds, which is of course BENEATH 175 pounds. An aging ODLH falls to the better-conditioned Pacman, who becomes LHW champ.

6) Pac wants to restore order to the LHW weight division, and challenges Chad Dawson to a title fight. He stipulates that the fight take place at no more than 140 pounds, a number BENEATH 175, and Dawson says he can't make the weight and thus looks elsewhere.

7) Pac then challenges Ivan Calderon to fight for the LHW title, and the bout is contracted at 115 pounds, a number that is BENEATH 175. Manny makes weight but collapses in the first round, and thus Ivan Calderon becomes the recognized Ring light heavyweight champion.

What? You saying that doesn't sound fair?

 

lets get something straight. i am a purist. i have never believed in these catchweight fights in the least. it is a problem that happens when some fighters become bigger than the sport. personally i think it is b.s. and should not be allowed. but unfortunately money talks. if a champion is willing to burn off weight that is their fault.

and sadly as ridiculous as what you wrote sounds, with the ring title, it is plausible

 

We agree then, I think. I just don't like how The Ring grandstands like it's the source we should all pay attention to most closely.

Thanks for the debate. Managed to kill off a slow workday!

 

have a good one

 

Wow. I thought I was the ONLY person saying this. Well, to be honest what I have been saying was BunnyHop was NOT the man at 175 and his 'defense' agains WW was a joke.

Bottom line, ask someone at the Ring. Not like this is a debatable issue that will be solved by someone's brilliant post here. I thought the 175 would be on the line since it was below the limit.