I know this is a crazy question but what if cus got a hold of Holyfield?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mike_b, Aug 18, 2022.

  1. Mike_b

    Mike_b Active Member Full Member

    Jul 9, 2020
    What if cus D'Amato got ahold of Evander Holyfield earlier on? Does cus even know how to train anybody not in the peekaboo style? Evander was 6'2" and approximately 215 at hw, 190-200 at cruiserweight and in the early days at 175 if that is indeed true in the amateurs, I'm not sure though.

    His arms were too long, was too tall, lacked the fast Twitch explosiveness of a Mike Tyson. But he could:
    - counter punch and combination puncher
    -liked to dance in a rythm while fighting
    -had a good left hook deadlier to the body and head
    -refused to quit even if he got beat up.

    Holyfield did awesome, had a great legacy with Don Turner, but would cus would've been able to work with a young Holyfield and teach him the mental aspects of the game? Not to take anything away from Holyfield, I'm basically asking if cus can transform a different breed of fighter other than the peekaboo stance? And Holyfield was already blessed with immense talent.

    Sorry for the rant.
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  2. ThatOne

    ThatOne Well-Known Member Full Member

    Jan 13, 2022
    He never fights Tyson.
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  3. Mike_b

    Mike_b Active Member Full Member

    Jul 9, 2020
    You are right. Conflict of interest. Both theoretically from the same stable if so.
  4. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Resident Gadfly Full Member

    Sep 22, 2021
    He’d look more like Jose Torres then Mike Tyson I suppose. I don’t know if he’d be better off with Cus because the final result before he became absolutely monstrous in size was a very good fighter for a HW.
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  5. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 26, 2009
    Fighting for Cus was like being in a cult.

    Not everyone was going to drink that Kool-Aid.

    He did best with guys he got really young who weren’t in a position to question things or veer from the ‘mysterious wise man’ who talked (like most cult leaders) in riddles and things that sounded more profound than they were.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
  6. steve1990

    steve1990 Active Member Full Member

    Jul 7, 2012
    Tyson is either in prison for the rest of his life or dead.
  7. BoB Box

    BoB Box Member Full Member

    Jun 13, 2022
    Holyfield would have never become a professional headbutter. Cus wouldnt have allowed that to become a tool in his tool box.
  8. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 26, 2009
    Tyson is one of the dirtiest fighters ever. I watched like the first round rounds of his first fight with Ruddock and the first two rounds of the second fight and he got warned at least six times (low blows, head butts, forearm to the face, hitting on the break, hitting after the bell, etc.) — and was deducted a point.

    Not to mention how many times he tried to break or wrench someone’s arm in a clinch, which was like a signature move of his.

    Not to mention that Lennox Lewis said Tyson literally taught him how to foul and get away with it.

    So that’s a bunch of hooey.
  9. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Feb 26, 2009
    Holyfield wouldn't have been much better. Cus had styles which he worked well with, but Evander was such a high level before turning professional..
  10. BoB Box

    BoB Box Member Full Member

    Jun 13, 2022
    Sure he was dirty in some fights like against Botha referring to your arm wrench and forearm tactic.
    in alot of his fights though almost all of the hitting after the bell or break was pretty much mutual on both sides .
    Tyson was more like a jack of all trades master of none when it came to dirty tactics.
    Holyfield was a master headbutter to the point of it actually being a part of his skill set in order to help him win fights.
    Cus might have taught Tyson some dirty tactics to use from time to time but Holyfield perfected Headbutting and turned it into an art.
    I dont think Cus would have allowed that.
  11. FastLeft

    FastLeft Well-Known Member Full Member

    Apr 23, 2022
    people are give trainers too much credit influence in success of boxer
    Holyfield would be great very good boxer with any trainer. only need small lesson & encourage
    the trainer does not make greatness boxer. is myth. he lucky for greatness boxer walk in his gym.
    Cus D'amato dedicated life to nothing else. only look for greatness boxers. no life but this. . is the ' ' numbers game."
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
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  12. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

    Nov 13, 2010
    I understand where you're coming from, but he aint talking about Tyson. It's Holyfield's headbutting especial and secret weapon of war. Holy was so profound with it and hid it very well.

    That's the name of the game though, right? Headbutt your way to victory!!
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  13. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

    Jan 8, 2017
    Good post. Yes, he'd resemble an heavyweight Torres.
    Be interesting to have seen how his career plays out with a different style altogether.
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  14. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 25, 2014
    "Young and not in a position to question" being the key words.

    Cus was a homosexual and a predator. For decades he took underprivileged kids and had them live at his home with him and "his beard" Camille, who he never married.

    It was a Jerry Sandusky type of situation which people always questioned and looked side-eyed at but was ignored given the era Cus lived in.

    In Patterson's bio, it even said Cus and a young Floyd Patterson slept in the same bed together at training camp. "Don't question Cus's methods." Atlas and Rooney have since commented on the situation at that home as well.

    I don't think Evander would've put up with that. He had a strong mom who was still alive when he was cruiserweight champ.

    Tyson didn't really have anyone but an older sister who basically raised him until he got sent away. It was either live in a "mansion" in the country (as Tyson described it) or go back to what amounted to jaii when you are 13.

    If Evander was introduced to Cus, he'd have beaten the hell out of that old queen in pretty short order.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2022
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  15. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Jun 26, 2009
    He’s saying the guy who taught Tyson — who brought him up from a pup, and whom every trainer up until far along in his career is tied to — would have stopped Holyfield from breaking rules … when in fact his best fighter ever is one of the dirtiest fighters ever.

    You can’t ignore Tyson’s rulebreaking when saying ‘Cus wouldn’t allow rulebreaking’ lol.
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