I re-watched & scored Whitaker v Chavez !

Well, put it this way: Haugen was matching Camacho over 24 rounds not but a few years earlier and yet a further 2 years before that, Whitaker was defining what the word "shutout" meant against Haugen.

Yes, Whitaker was THAT much better than Camacho (at leas the one Chavez faced, I mean).

 

Just bumping this thread to post an interesting pre-fight interview with Chavez. Has English translation with it.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VdxJdYEThA&feature=related[/ame]

 

all that talk and he still got whooped

 

I like how he mentions that he's going to hit Whitaker from head to toe.

After the fight he was complaining about getting hit low.

 

I rewatched tonight and have Chavez winning 117-115,

 

So Whitakers victory over Haugen was more impressive than Chavez' utter destruction of Haugen???

 

Depends. Chavez demolished Haugen more completely, but the Haugen that fought Chavez was not the same Haugen than fought Whitaker.

 

Just like the Ramirez which beat Whitaker, was not the same as the Ramirez which was stopped by Chavez right??? Hahaha! Sweets, we can go in this circle for days! Not disputing Whitaker got the best of Julio. just burns me when posters dismiss Chavez as having no chance prime for prime. Which I just dont think is the case.

 

Good points, that was a brutal stoppage by Chavez, and a great win for Ramirez against Pea.

How do you see a prime for prime match up going? Do you think Julio can outpoint Whitaker? It's a pretty hard task to do.

 

Yes hard, but not impossible. Buddy McGirt in thier first had a determined attack, behind a good jab. was effective. a close fight. who knows what would have happened if his left shoulder didn't go out. maybe McGirt coulda won maybe not.
I honestly couldnt say how it would go. they both were much faster at lightweight.

 

Exactly. Classic case of denigrating a win over a legit champion.

 

I agree with this statment.. Chavez clearly wasn't as good as he was against Camacho or Taylor, it's pretty clear his peak was against Rosario almost six years before the Whitaker fight.

 

McGirt and Chavez fight nothing alike though. Whitaker can be appointed, but with Chavez's style I find it hard to believe.

 

What did Chavez have in the Camacho fight that he didn't in the Whitaker fight (other than a hack fighter in front of him)?

 

Chavez wasn't fighting world class opposition at welterweight prior to fighting Whitaker. Whitaker already established himself at the weight by winning title!

The issue isn't the 2 lbs slowing down Chavez, the issue is that is probably the most he could bring himself in at, which is still 5 lbs less than the welterweight limit. Whitaker came in right at the limit suggesting drained himself to get there and walked in heavier fight night. Chavez style is dependent on on his ability to impose which requires a lot of strength. Fighting at welter lost him his most important advantage.

The fight at welter wasn't exactly a shut out either. Punchstats show Pernell Whitaker (311/790=39%) D 12 JC Chavez (220/637=34%) 91

So the averages per round would be PW: (26/66); JCC (18/53)
Not really a big difference in numbers

Scoring is based on:
Clean Punching
Effective Aggression
Ring Generalship
Defense
In my opinion both fighters have to be judged by all criteria each round. Most people just score in favor of what they like and apply it to the fighter who does that.

Overall Picture, yet this should be round by round:
Clean punching you can give to PW, but per round it's not much
Effective Aggression you can give to neither, maybe Chavez in the rounds he did well
Ring Generalship you can give to PW, yet it wasn't consistent
Defense there can be an argument for both, but PW does a little better percentage wise, Chavez does a little better in pure numbers

To be honest the fight was really a bit letdown. The rounds weren't very clear to score, there wasn't many big punches or turning of the tide. Most sequences would go Whitaker missing a lot of jabs, every now and then landing a combo with very little mustard, and Chavez ending the sequence with a overhand right which can give some benefit of doubt as to why he could be scored more favorably. In the end I would have to give it to Whitaker, albeit in a messy fashion.

The fight isn't much of an indicator how each fighter would have done prime for prime. In their primes the speed and intensity would be much greater and weight/sizes much more comparable. I think Chavez would edge it with his body work to slow Whitaker down. If Chavez was an American fighter I think he would be given more benefit of the doubt. The commentators seemed to have really hated Chavez for some reason.