I really don't rate Calzaghe what about yous?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Kamikaze, Sep 18, 2021.



  1. ThePlugInBabies

    ThePlugInBabies ♪ ♫ Full Member

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    i don't remember a single point in time where that fight (prime rjj) was a realistic option.

    hopkins was and there is enough press talk to suggest so but i don't remember much hullabaloo about a rjj-calzaghe fight. it made sense for neither fighter ever until the point where they actually met, which is mostly on JC not stepping up earlier.
     
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  2. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

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    He was supposedly no longer top level because he actually ran into guys who could prove he never was that good to begin with. I mean the guy was "heavyweight champion" by avoiding the man everyone knew was the actual one so he could fight... John Ruiz? Dafuq? No, there's a lot of smoke and mirrors with ol' Speedy Gonzalez over there. Amir Khan looked like a genius against Zab and Paulie. The genius mysteriously disappeared when he fought Garcia. Right. Jones finally agreed to fight Hopkins again when he wasn't green and next thing you know he looks awful. It ain't rocket science.

    Well, I am here to prove...you...wrong.
     
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  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Calzaghe could win the fight. It’s not impossible because it didn’t happen, that is utterly ludicrous.
     
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  4. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    There was a small window of opportunity for Joe to push for it when he signed with Showtime. But he wouldn’t fight in the U.S. or up at LHW at that point.
     
  5. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    I don’t know whether you’re being serious or not.
     
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  6. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    I shudder to think what Hopkins would’ve done to Cal if he didn’t need a walking stick to get to the ring.
     
  7. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    What are you talking about?

    Those other guys weren’t certain if they could win, but they were confident enough to go out and try.

    Joe never had that confidence at all.

    Why do you think he fought a guy like Mario Veit twice and was still looking for a career defining fight in his 30’s?

    His own father and Frank Warren said he wasn’t as confident as what he should have been.
     
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  8. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    Emile called himself lucky numerous times talking about the Tiger fight. He was a realest every man has doubt in himself.
     
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  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    "Joe couldn't win the fight if he didn't believe he could win the fight."

    "No, there are fighters who didn't believe they could win in history who did win."

    "But those fights happened."

    Yes, yes, they did, that's why it constitutes real world evidence. Of course, it is impossible to produce real-world evidence of a literal produced negative. Yes Loudon, there has never been an example of a fight that didn't happen :lol:

    But ti doesn't matter. Fighters lacking confidence in their ability to win fights have won fights. I don't consider your position valid or reasonable. Lack of confidence does not preclude victory for absolute elite sportsmen and this has been proven. Mario Veit doesn't have anything to do with it.

    The idea that the best SMW in history should be given a walkover against the second or third best SMW in history because the fight didn't happen, is preposterous and i reject it out of hand.
     
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  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Dempsey too. Tyson too. The list goes on and on in fact. I'll bet that better than 70% of fighters who have ever lived have gone out and won a fight they weren't sure they could win at some point in their careers, though i'm obviously speculating.
     
  11. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    There are fighters who really were fearless sociopathic types like maybe a Ketchel?
    But any man that can understand pain has fears and knows doubt- the relentlessness of a Duran can only come from a place of fear and spite of pain for instance.
     
  12. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    I’ve never said that other fighters didn’t win fights that they weren’t sure that they could win beforehand.

    Why are you being argumentative?

    Every fighter is different.

    Every fighter’s circumstances are different.

    A fighter might not fully believe that he can win, but he’ll take the fight and try his best.

    Other fighters can find themselves in a position where they’ve got everything to gain and nothing to lose.

    Yes, the fight between Roy and Joe never happened earlier.

    That’s because Joe wanted nothing to do with him.

    He wouldn’t fight in the U.S. and push himself to face the best. That’s why Showtime withdrew their interest in him.

    I don’t care what other fighters did or what you find reasonable or unreasonable. I’m telling you that Joe would not fight a prime version of Roy Jones. And Mario Veit is completely relevant, because it gives you an idea of his mindset at the time.

    I watched the guy’s entire career.

    I know what he said and what he did, and what his own father and promoter said about him.

    I’ll take that over what you may think.

    It wasn’t bad luck why Joe only fought a dozen world class fighters out of 45 opponents.
     
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  13. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I agree. Calzaghe was no big deal. a mere dust mote in the history of the sport.
     
  14. Kamikaze

    Kamikaze Bye for now! banned Full Member

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    *Sarcasm radar active*
     
  15. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    This has nothing to do with what I’ve said.

    I’m not talking about being nervous or not believing 100% that they could win when in the ring.

    Fighter’s aren’t robots, they’re humans.

    Yes, even guys like Tyson may not have gone in the ring believing that they could 100% win all of the time.

    The difference is, even if they thought that, they still took the fights.

    They had enough belief in themselves to pursue the fights and sign the contracts.

    That is a completely different scenario to what I’m talking about.

    Joe wouldn’t go near Roy.

    The fight never happened earlier, because Joe had no intention of pursuing it.

    There’s a reason why he made 21 defences of a lightly regarded WBO belt.