I really hope IBHOF reconsiders Ceferino Garcia

Bump.
It's honestly a real tragedy that Ceferino Garcia is still not being considered for the IBHOF. Doug Fischer's reasoning for this is pretty weak when you take into consideration other fighters with much lesser resume that were able to get in.

"Ceferino Garcia in the IBHOF

Is there still chance for the late great Filipino middleweight fighter Ceferino Garcia to be considered in the International Boxing Hall of Fame?

Garcia was the first and still the only Filipino, and Asian for that matter, to win and reign in the middleweights, traditionally one of boxing’s premier and strongest divisions, in the late 1930s. He was the originator of the bolo punch which was later adopted and popularized by Kid Gavilan, and one of the very few fighters to have stopped the incredible winning run of American boxing great Henry Armstrong, holding him to draw in Garcia’s defense of his world middleweight title. Garcia won the middleweight crown by KO over Fred Apostoli who ironically had already been inducted into the IBHOF.

As war clouds gathered in the Pacific, Garcia gave his countrymen something to cheer about when he defended his crown in Manila beating bitter rival Glen Lee via 13th-round TKO a few days before Christmas in 1940. He lost his title by decision to Ken Overlin who I know for a fact is seriously being considered for enshrinement in the IBHOF.

Born in Naval, Leyte on August 26, 1906, Garcia was forced by the war to stay in the USA which became his permanent home after his boxing career and minor acting stints in the Hollywood where he also served as driver/bodyguard of actress Mae West, until his death on New Year’s Day of 1981.

Garcia was already inducted to the World Boxing Hall of Fame and the Ring Magazine Hall of Fame but has yet to be nominated for induction in the more prestigious IBHOF based in Canastota.

Greetings from the Philippines! – Teodoro Medina Reynoso

Doug Fischer's response:

Thanks for sharing your thoughts and passion for Garcia, who I consider one of the best Filipino fighters of all time (probably top four or five, but definitely behind Manny Pacquiao, Pancho Villa and Flash Elorde) but not an all-time great.

Does he deserve to be in the IBHOF? Because of his longevity (nearly 22 years), tough as hell competition (including six current hall of famers) and more than 100 victories (118, 74 by KO), I give him consideration. However, I’ve yet to put a check mark by his name on the IBHOF ballot. He fought two all-time greats, Armstrong and Barney Ross, but could not beat them (and by most accounts, he was lucky to get the draw against Armstrong in their “middleweight title bout.”). He lost to HOFers Freddie Steele and Young Corbett III. His stoppage of Apostoli or back-to-back wins over a young Lloyd Marshall are probably his best victories. They are in the IBHOF and he is not. Why is that? Well, Apostoli, who owns KO victories over Corbett and Steele, was a top middleweight for at least five years. He had consistency that Garcia lacked. And Marshall went on to score victories over all-time greats, such as Jake LaMotta, Ezzard Charles and Charley Burley.

Here’s what Lee Groves had to say about both Garcia and Valdez:

Because of the new ballot procedures instituted a couple of years ago, Garcia and Valdez were on the “modern” ballot until the IBHOF reforms adopted a couple of years ago. Garcia and Valdes now are on the “Late Era” Old-Timers ballot, which consists of fighters who retired between 1942 to 1988. That portion of the old-timers’ ballot will be considered this year while the “Early Era” fighters between 1893-1942 will be revisited next year. Voters are allowed to choose up to five names, but only the top vote-getter will earn enshrinement (barring ties, of course). That’s a pretty tight window to squeeze through.

For me, it depends on which new names will be on this ballot that will determine the fates of Garcia and Valdes. I do think the new procedure will enhance their chances of being elected, especially since I’ve heard some sentiment in their favor. To this point I’ve refrained from voting for them because I don’t think either showed Hall-of-Fame level dominance over their era. Garcia has some big numbers but to me his record is too spotty and his reign as NYSAC world middleweight titlist far too brief, especially when compared to his divisional peers. As for Valdes, he’ll be heavily defined by his competitive but losing fights with Carlos Monzon. I think he has a better shot of getting in than Garcia does because he won his version of the title by scoring the only KO defeat of Bennie Briscoe (a one-punch KO), one of three wins he scored against “Bad Bennie.” He also has some good wins against Gratien Tonna, Bobby Cassidy and Vinnie Curto, plus he was a strong enough hitter to put Monzon on the deck in their rematch. But again, his time at the top was brief and was overshadowed by the great Monzon, who I felt defeated him fairly decisively both times. Finally, middleweight is a very deep division historically and thus the bar is set very high, at least for me."

 

3 wins over Hofers, + a draw vs. ATG Armstrong (albeit controversial) - @ this point, that should be enough to get him in. There certainly are far weaker/less accomplished fighters that have been inducted.

 

Bump.
It's crazy that Ceferino Garcia has yet to be included for this long. He should have been in decades ago. Doug Fischer's response on why he's not considered is mind boggling and absolutely disrespectful when you have guys like Vinnie Pazienza and Ray Mancini inducted instead.

They also have an Old Timer section as well so they should be able to squeeze him in more easily now but it seems like they're also putting in fighters from the 70s in that category.

 

Forget the "IBHOF" . Start your own hall of fame.
They've got Jane Crouch in, but no Ceferino Garcia.

The correct response is to laugh, it's bad. You can't take it too seriously.

 

Yeah, IBHOF really messed up, when they changed the categories a few years back!

For exampel, they list Yoko Gushiken (pro career 1974-1981) in the Old-Timer group, and Jack (kid) Berg (pro career 1924-1945 as a "Modern"! How on earth does that make any sense??

 

I’ve never understood the reasoning behind the argument that ‘I don’t think so-and-so deserved to get in, so this other guy who I think is better should be in.’

If you don’t think Arturo Gatti should be in, you shouldn’t argue that someone else belongs based on comparison to a guy who you don’t believe deserves it. You should be arguing that your guy belongs because he’s better than people who definitely deserve their places … if Arturo is a mistake, don’t compound it by putting other guys you put in the same category as Gatti also in.

I’m not saying Ceferino is in the same category as Gatti or Pazienza, but how good he is relative to them doesn’t make a good argument for him being in to me because I wouldn’t have either of them in.

 

The Hall Of Legends the @McGrain is running for the forum is honestly the best version, lots of us are super nerds on the topic and only legit guys will make it in, in my opinion I think in time it’d be superior to saying “Bob beat 7 HOF’ers” instead we’d be saying “Bob beat 3 guys in the HOL’s” and I mean that.