I still rank Chagaev #2, not Peter (based on accomplishments)

I had never heard the comparison between Peter and Chagaev, Chris, but I'd definitely agree with anyone that either Peter or Chagaev are no Tyson. Other than Peter being African and Chagaev being called the White Tyson in the HWT division, I don't see anything similar about them at all. Tyson was a bobber and weaver who used his speed to better apply his power punches. Peter is a plodder who uses the jab to mask his power right and Chagaev is a sluggish volley puncher.

The thing that's frustrating about Peter is that, when motivated correctly, he can be explosive. He looked fantastic against James Toney in their second fight, where he used boxing rather than going for one-punch knockouts. But then, as many have said, he shows up out of shape. Honestly, I thought he looked out of shape against Maskaev and he was lucky he caught Oleg when he did or he'd have been in real trouble in the later rounds. I know using the argument, "If he didn't knock him out, he would have lost" isn't a great one, but I think it's true in this case.

Now, Chris, let truth be told. Valuev doesn't know anything about boxing - he is just a mountain of a man and a bear hugger. Even Donald was given an argument against Valuev, let alone Ruiz. Chagaev didn't beat Ruiz decisively - he won a split decision. Actually, I should say that Chagaev's big win so far has been against Sprott and before Sprott beat Audley. Make the inverse thinking - would Ruslan beat Maskaev in six and Toney twice? I doubt it based on his majority, very narrow points decision over Valuev and his uneventful twelve rounders with Skelton and Ruiz... Peter above Chagaev clearly.

 

Dude didnt beat Huggy bear. Ruiz was robbed in that fight, as much as I hate to say it. Besides didnt Toney whip Ruiz??? Ruiz maybe should have also got a win over valuev. Chagaev and Valuev are crap and would both lose to Peter. Niether guy could score a clear win over Ruiz who no one will argue sucks. Judging from the two fights they are on level with Ruiz:hey

 

I could see either one being considered 2, though I think Peter did just enough to edge him out, both men have won close matches to good competition, Chagaev barely beat Ruiz and Valuev, while Peter barely beat Toney and Mccline, Maskaev is yet to knockout a good opppenent, Peter has just done that. Peter was also the last man to Wlad one hell of a fight, and only lost by 3 points on all three of the judges scorecards, when ever one else Wlad has fought since, has gotten dominated by Wlad.

 

Only thing is Toney beat Ruiz so that has to be more impressive.

 

Yes, though some may not count that win because of the positive steroid test, which was more and likely Hydro-cortisonse for his injuried shoulder, if James did take an illegal steroid of some kind, it seemed to have hurt him, more than helped him.

 

I remain resolutely unimpressed with Virchis, and think he should've lost to Sprott too.

Sprott is notoriously hot and cold.

Certainly the wins against Ruiz and Valuev are worthy of merit.

But overall, I feel Peter has fought the better opposition. And he had three KDs of the #1 guy to his name, as opposed to zero for Chagaev. Even though he got well outboxed in the end, that counts for more than zero.

 

For me...Toney > Valuev, Ruiz > Maskaev, Virchis = McCline.

All their other wins can be lumped together. There's no huge difference between Sprott, Skelton, J Williams, etc

Being their best wins are about even and Chagaev is undefeated I'd go with him as the #2 heavyweight.

 

Thats never a good argument.

 

Usually but this time yeah.

When two fighters have faced similar opposition and both currently hold titles and the only thing that seperates them is that one is undefeated.

I'll take that.

 

Iggy's best wins are over 45 yearold Holyfield and Shannon "The Inhaler" Briggs, and a draw against Austin where he was knocked down, his undefeated record dont hold much water, Brock was undefeated too, but his best wins are over Guinn and Mccline, where he was knocked down and hurt by Mccline in that fight.

 

Valuev isn't a master boxer, but he can pump the jab pretty well and combined with his size it makes him a difficult opponent.

Have you seen Ruiz-Chagaev? That split decision was bull****. Chagaev won a clear decision, 8-4.

And their fight was not "uneventful" at all, it was a very entertaining fight in which Ruiz didn't employ his usual wrestling style. Don't make assumptions on fights you haven't seen.


These were clear wins against top guys. McCline was not a top guy but Peter struggled like hell (unlike Ruiz, who Chagaev beat). Toney was a top guy and most had him winning the first fight. In the rematch he was shot (guess that first fight took its toll) although admittedly, Peter made a lot of improvements.

I guess it's subjective, but i would give the edge to Chagaev at this moment because he didn't have so many struggles against inferior opposition.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all 3 of Chagaevs best wins ended with either a majority or split decision? Virchis, Ruiz, and Valuev, I only have seen the Ruiz and Valuev fights, I thought both were pretty close, but Chagaev won them IMO. He has also failed to dominate or knockout a top contender at the Heavyweight division, Peter on the other hand was able to dominate Toney in there second fight, and knockout Maskaev.

I had Chagaev slightly ahead of Peter before the Maskaev fight, but I feel Peter did what he had to do to prove his worth, and knocked a top 5 guy out in Maskaev. I feel Chagaev's inactivity/cancellation against Iggy should bring his stock down, plus his less than impressive win over Skelton just a month or two back.

 

Its ironic to see a thread like this...

In 2002 i watched the two sparring in America, they were going like hell for between 5 and 6 rounds every day for a fortnight.. Kenny Adams started to have them spar against different guys after the 14 day slug fests.. They had Derrick Banks, Friday, Cisse and Ty Fields some days and a big dude called James who was a mixed martial artist.. Ruslin was great against anyone until Friday hurt him badly on one particular day, Samuel then went to work with Klitchko at Top Rank for a few days along with Teke Oruh and Tony Tubbs.. But Kenny always proclaimed they were destined for massive things.. I met Kenny at the Palms Hotel Buffet in October and he came over to talk about old times.. The first thing he said was , Look at where Sammy and Ruslan are now man.. What were we all saying ... Its unreal.. Kenny said Chagaev was crying when Universum made him return to Germany to continue his career, he said he learned to fight professionally properly in Vegas.. He sobbed to Kenny, I promise to return some day .. Samuel likes Chagaev, he had mad respect for him and his power.. It was often Chagaev that made Sammy work much harder than normal.. It was great to witness. I wish i could go back and realise..

 

Who do you see as the better overall fighter? And if they were to fight, who would you put your money on?

 

Punisher....

I would have to slam my money on Samuel, he has changed a lot more than Ruslin has , he is very patient noow and if you watch the conclusion of the Maskaev fight Sammy was extremely calculated, He hits very hard and is accurate too. Chagaev is a half step behind him but one thing Chagaev always brings is extreme determination.. I saw Chagaev on the floor badly hurt by Friday , but i also saw Samuel stay at a respectful distance from Friday.. Sammy has a tougher chin IMO .. I take Sammy on points he is active and heavy handed for a man so big.. If Chagaev would have stayed with the fellers in the USA , he would be a more complete fighter nowadays.. Chagaev is the harder worker in the gym but Samuel is the more naturally gifted fighter.. Sammy would beat Ruslin tomorrow if they met tommorrow..

But you never can tell with heavyweights..

I wanna see the Klitschko rematch now though.. a great fight..