I still want Pac vs Floyd over any other fight.

Sure why not

 

I agree with Floyd vs Pacman still happening, hell yea, it should be a quality fight, and ppv wise still be the biggest money maker, BUT no way in ****ing hell is it THE fight I want to see. Martinez vs Mayweather is the one I want to see the most.

 

Exactly. Would have been a huge letdown like most superfights.


with Floyd winning easy.

 

If this fight ever does happen I do hope they have a worthwhile card.

 

His form in Pacquiao-Marquez 4 didn't do enough to entice you BE? I was reminded of the Cotto performance with the way he was boxing.

 

He had the fire, but when you get obliterated after looking good it makes me less on the "see, he's returning to form" and more on the "you can only return to so much form, even at your most motivated, after all this" side of things. On the one hand, like I said in another thread, you could treat it like Charles/Walcott, where it's just a matter of "If two elite fighters get in the ring that many times with each other, have that much experience working on each other, like a puzzle, there's no surprise that one of them finds the kayo punch, finally" and that's all it is. Maybe. But, even looking good aside, it's that it comes on the heels of what looked like a slow decline before that. And against a fighter that I feel was on a slow decline even before him. It wasn't like he had one fight where he didn't look peak anymore. He had several, the way I was looking at it. I can see the physical decline in both men for years now, JMM even longer.

But, as I said before, JMM doesn't have a young man's style and Pac does.
I always thought Pac, with his style and attributes that must accompany it would be far more likely to cause Mayweather trouble than JMM. But, without being able to apply his game with the same thorough intensity (we still don't know, stamina-wise, even if he looked good early with JMM, after the Bradley fight) and being able to take punishment (was it one isolated perfect shot or can't he take it anymore?) is he still a great fighter that would interest me enough to think he might upset a guy who is still, arguably the p4p #1? And I mean, arguably, in the sense that maybe guys like Ward have overtaken him as he's gotten older and Ward has come into his own, not where they should be ranked by accomplishment mixed with recent results, where Mayweather should obviously, to me, still be #1.

To me, while I don't know what Pac is capable of or exactly what to think about his current status just yet (I'd need to see him tested once more) I'm leaning toward the negative with regard to whether it was just getting hit perfectly or if it's the next logical step in a progression of decline that I've felt I've been observing for years. I recognise that I can't know, but I'm assuming that position and with that assumption a fight with Mayweather isn't one I'm interested in, whereas I would've been in the 2008 to maybe 2011 period. I feel Marquez/Pac was two fighters finally getting a kayo outcome but only after both have been chopped at like an Ortiz tree long enough that it was bound to happen to one of them soon. And it signified the last bit of curiosity of a Mayquiao super event. Now, it'd just be a Mayweather regular event.

 

Why? It's not relevent and would have never been copmptive.

 

I see. I completely understand your position. I was of the opinion Pacquiao could never perform like that again, and was surprised. Marquez had definitely declined for longer, but obviously had the style to compensate. Looking at the damage each man took, it almost seems destined to have happened given it was their 4th encounter. While I did think Manny was declining, I don't think the KO itself is evidence of that. Chin is often the last thing to go on a fighter, and Manny hasn't even been dented since the Cotto fight (in which he took even the heaviest shots fine.) There was no evidence of a degradation of his durability. I can't see a prime Manny running into that shot and getting up.

Who would you want to see him beat in order to make the fight relevant again? I thought Bradley was good practice, given his defensive capabilities, speed, versatility, and ability to sport a shell-guard, but I'm not sure they want a rematch. I think Manny's at that stage of inconsistency old fighters reach, where he can still give us his best with the right motivation. Given Floyd isn't getting any younger, the next pair of fights give hope, but it would likely be the last (given Manny doesn't fight Marquez).

 

Only bumping this because I demand an answer from BE. Standing me up and **** :-(

 

Yes. It would still be the biggest fight by far. I still say it breaks the May-DLH record.

 

Over rios vs mattysse? Your are outta your damn mind!

 

I still want to see it only because the spectacle for it would be great. I think it should be the retirement fight for both men, assuming Mayweather doesn't lose between now and then and Manny can get his belt back from Bradley in a rematch and beat Marquez. Manny getting knocked out removes it from consideration for now, but I actually think it's still a very interesting, close bout, albeit for different reasons.

Back in 2009/2010, Manny was at his physical peak, and Mayweather still had his legs. Could Mayweather have boxed his way to a decision? Most likely. Could Pac have overwhelmed him? You'd have to think that maybe he could have (and Floyd certainly did), or else Floyd would have fought him, bagged that huge payday and legacy, and walked off into the sunset. But he didn't.

Nowadays, Manny has slowed down, and his chin might be gone too. He has improved technically though (the way he totally neutralized Bradley's offense and easily countered and outboxed him was telling.) Floyd, meanwhile, doesn't have his legs anymore. It's impossible to say he would be able to box away from Manny as easily as he would have a few years ago. He stands in the pocket/lies off the ropes and counters much more than boxing and moving these days. That's not exactly a good approach to take with Manny, but it's not as if Floyd can still box and move as he once did. At the same time, Manny could have a much weaker chin the next time we see him out there, we won't know.

Both men aren't as good as they once were, but it's still an intriguing fight due to what's happened since then. Will Manny be able to find a more stationary Floyd more often (and be able to hit a reflexes-declined, aged) Floyd more often than if they'd fought years ago? Will Floyd be able to seriously hurt/stop Manny/put his foot on the gas and fight aggressively like he did Cotto knowing that Manny can be hurt now? Will that tactic open him up and make him more vulnerable? You just don't know.

The matchup would obviously mean less happening now than it would have meant had it happened back in the day, but it's still one of the boxing matches I most want to see. Marquez beating Pacquiao doesn't mean Floyd has a proxy win or would beat him automatically; if boxing worked like that all the time, 100%, Ali would have got murked by Foreman.

Do I favor Floyd if they were to fight before the end? Yes. But it wouldn't be a walkover. It's still a very interesting boxing match, and if Manny can bounce back well, it would still be quite a spectacle.

 

John if this fight was signed tomorrow you would be one of the FIRST to come and ***** and moan about Floyd fighting Pac off of a bad loss atsch

 

I'll hold you to that opinion

 

Just as I see it. Great objective evaluation. People are dismissing this fight as a pre-conceived brawler vs. boxer, but there are a lot of questions to be asked. It was a fascinating fight to break down at their peaks, and it's still a very intriguing fight to pick apart.