I think Berto's fine

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Aug 5, 2015.


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  1. Code Red

    Code Red Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    When was Floyd in his top form?
     
    Code Red, Aug 5, 2015
    Code Red, Aug 5, 2015
    #61
  2. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    - I am not criticizing mayweather for not fighting an excellent opponent, I am criticizing him for fighting a garbage opponent. There is a huge difference there, believe it or not. You will not see much criticism from me for what you describe as his previous 'soft touches', because they were in the realm of acceptability (almost all of his so called soft touches were highly ranked at the time, and coming off a big win) and were an understandable compromise for the best fighter in the world to not fight his most dangerous opponent every other fight.

    This is a new low, and not an understandable compromise, and I don't see how a serious mind can think otherwise.


    And again, in this circumstance it really comes down to a few options when you hear that the highest paid athlete in the world, and p4p number one, is fighting a guy not even ranked in his division.... and the main options there are *meh, stay queit about it, say 'its fine' or, criticize it. I choose to criticize it, and the people that defend it, because ultimately its this kind of stuff that is bad for the sport.


    You seem set on accepting and defending it, which is your prerogative. I just don't see how 'understanding' it, and citing precedence for such actions, makes someone want to vocally and actively defend it and excuse it. We should be speaking up about it regardless of the excuses given for staging it.
     
    kirk, Aug 5, 2015
    kirk, Aug 5, 2015
    #62
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well I think that's extremely harsh. I'd expect that Berto is better than Wepner (Ali after Foreman), shot Jones (Calzaghe after Hopkins) and a bunch of other guys who have got title shots. He'd be far - far from the worst fighter to fight for a lineal title, and to be honest it doesn't make that much difference - Mayweather could find a couple of guys between 140 and 154 who are ranked who he could beat as easily.


    Presumably you wish to retrospectively denounce Muhammad Ali for taking on Wepner five months after crushing George Foreman? Roy Jones for taking on Antoine Byrd five months after shutting out James Toney? All the other great fighters who took a soft one after defeating a pound-for-pounder in an industry standard move?

    Because I ithink that is way harsh.

    If it is bad for the sport (and history mostly shows it's not - a type of coronation or feel-good "event" does no harm at all, but again, the market will decide) and it might be given Mayweather's age, I don't see what his being paid for it - when his pay is directly linked to how badly people want to see the fight he is taking part in - has to do with it.

    It's not like he gets told "here's 100m, fight who you like" - he has to get it bang on to get a 100m.

    As for the contract, there will have been an explicit discussion during which Floyd would have been handed carte blanch in picking his next opponent based upon his agreement to "risk it all" (which he didn't but he kind of did). Everyone at that meeting will have understood what that means.


    I'm not defending it - I would like to see him fight Golovkin more than Berto -- i'm just not getting all the anxt and woe. It's normal. There's nothing wrong with it. It's the internet in conjunction with the biggest star in boxing which breeds hysteria (no offence to you - you're a good poster and know the sport we just disagree here and i'll say so); just as you feel it's valid to attack the fight, I think it's worth saying how I see it.

    I feel Mayweather is being castigated for what is normal, and as a sportsman I admire him. So that's natural for me.
     
    McGrain, Aug 5, 2015
    McGrain, Aug 5, 2015
    #63
  4. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    We will always disagree on this, and Ive already said my piece so I will exit and you have last word, I will end with

    - You obviously think precedence for an action, should excuse that action, I dont.

    - You seem to think that a fighters ranking and pay shouldnt matter when selecting opponents, I think they do (though you are right, his pay is determined by the quality/popularity of his opponent, but hes still getting a base amount independent of ppv sales (which determines the cieling of his pay) which is above and beyond what

    - You seem to think fighters deserve easy fights after fighting people they should be fighting in the first place, and while I agree to a certain extent, I think theres reasonable and unreasonable fights, and this is without a doubt an unreasonable fight, even for a soft touch.

    - You seem to think it doesnt matter if his opponent isnt ranked, because even a ranked opponent would be easy. Which isnt the point, and actually makes the fight that much more bizarre.

    - Yes, you are defending it. You are not just 'not getting all that anxt and woe' about it, you are quite literally defending it when you chose to make this thread. You are trying to excuse it and normalise it.... instead of trying to be part of the voice in the sport that speaks out against this kind of thing.



    I enjoyed our back and forth, youre a good poster, just one of those things we will always disagree on.

    Dont think Im being rude if I dont respond to your next reply. I will read it though and take in what you say. Just no point in going back and forth as Im sure you understand.

    :good
     
    kirk, Aug 5, 2015
    kirk, Aug 5, 2015
    #64
  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Plus, it wasn't like he faced the #1 and followed it up with Jo Jo Dan or Vernon Paris or something.

    Berto is just on the outskirts beyond what most would consider acceptable (which is a very short list, with Berto not many names removed)
     
    IntentionalButt, Aug 5, 2015
    IntentionalButt, Aug 5, 2015
    #65
  6. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    It would be fine if it was not on PPV :deal

    Floyd is nowhere near a TOP 10 ATG.
     
    THE BLADE 2, Aug 6, 2015
    THE BLADE 2, Aug 6, 2015
    #66
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Of course I don't. But what Mayweather's done isn't unusual. It's more than a precedent, it's what is often normal in boxing. So I don't get the crazy-eyes over it.

    Look at it this way - if Mayweather does Pacquiao, Berto, Golovkin, do you honestly think that in 8 yrs time - hell, in eighteen months time - anyone will give a **** that Mayweather fought Berto? Of course they won't! It's an absolutely reasonable, normal thing to do if you are fulfilling (or in this case exceeding) your wider responsibilities.

    I know it doesn't. Ali was paid the equivalent of around $15m dollars for fighting club fighter Chuck Wepner. Because he was a global superstar taking a soft fight after and before a very hard and hard one respectively, nobody thought it odd, wrong, or immoral and criticism was muted. Criticism of Ali's performance AFTER it was far louder. It was absolutely normal, and still is.

    I think there's nothing wrong with it, at all. I think - again, no offence - that if Mayweather fights Pacquiao, Bero, Cotto/Alvarez winner, complaining about Berto is nothing less than hysteria. IF, on the other hand, Mayweather fights Berto and then Lamont Peterson, Berto/Peterson becomes a problem.

    No problem.
     
    McGrain, Aug 6, 2015
    McGrain, Aug 6, 2015
    #67
  8. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    PPV numbers will be extremely low for this one. :deal

    I had a feeling that people are done with Floyd after the Pac fight. At this point, people only want to see Floyd take on real challenges (e.g. GGG).
     
    THE BLADE 2, Aug 6, 2015
    THE BLADE 2, Aug 6, 2015
    #68
  9. Flexb

    Flexb Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The only way this fight would be OK is if it were a warm up fight to another mega fight, with someone like GGG. But its not, its one of Floyd's LAST fights and he's taking on a guy who Floyd's victims themselves have beaten! Its a slap in the face to boxing and his own fans. Floyd should just retire, this fight is a complete and utter farce and only thing its doing is cementing Floyd's reputation as a bum hunter. Fighting berto will do nothing for his legacy except shine more negativity on it. The only thing worse than this fight is it being on PPV. That I can not believe. I'd rather watch another 30 second Rhonda Rousey fight than see another Floyd sparring match.
     
    Flexb, Aug 6, 2015
    Flexb, Aug 6, 2015
    #69
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Right, so the only reason to object to this as a contest is if it isn't what you describe as "a warm up" for another mega fight (Pacquiao, Alvarez/Cotto winner, Golovkin) which, if it is, nothing wrong with the Berto fight, and if it isn't, the Berto fight/next fight are no good.


    But just on another point, this idea that pound-for-pounders have to only fight very hard opposition "or retire" near the end of their career is nonsense. Ali's last opponent was Trevor Berbick. Calzaghe's last opponent was shot Roy. Barrera's last opponent was Jose Aries. The split is about 50.50 and the top class guys who go out against other top class guys tend to do so because they've had a bad beating.

    Floyd continues to ably and completely discharge any responsibilities he has to boxing, presuming his next opponent is an acceptable one.
     
    McGrain, Aug 6, 2015
    McGrain, Aug 6, 2015
    #70
  11. Lady Girl

    Lady Girl Kneel Before Zod! Full Member

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    berto actually has an interesting style. he likes to fight. only problem is floyd doesnt
     
    Lady Girl, Aug 6, 2015
    Lady Girl, Aug 6, 2015
    #71
  12. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Only problem is last time Berto got outboxed by somebody whose name I can not remember :roll:
     
    THE BLADE 2, Aug 6, 2015
    THE BLADE 2, Aug 6, 2015
    #72
  13. iceman71

    iceman71 WBC SILVER Champion Full Member

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    if he fought 3 or 4 times a year....sure ok.
    but to go from the #2 guy to the #22 is a friggin joke.
    also bad example on sugar ray...he fought every month if not more...not 2 times a year.
     
    iceman71, Aug 6, 2015
    iceman71, Aug 6, 2015
    #73
  14. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Floyd's fights have been automatic PPV for years now. Is Berto really a worse PPV dance partner than Guerrero? Ortiz? Baldomir? (lineal schmineal)

    ...and none of those were coming on the heels of facing #2.
     
    IntentionalButt, Aug 6, 2015
    IntentionalButt, Aug 6, 2015
    #74
  15. iceman71

    iceman71 WBC SILVER Champion Full Member

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    heres an idea.... have him a fight a tune up with a guy thats a legit top 10.... its a joke that Berto is even ranked by a ABC belt when he lost 3 of 6 and his wins are against unranked guys , one not even a welter.
    real tune ups are non title and not 75.00 PPVS
     
    iceman71, Aug 6, 2015
    iceman71, Aug 6, 2015
    #75
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