I think James J Braddock could have beaten James J Jeffries

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, May 21, 2012.


  1. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Over 15? Yes, it's probable.

    Fight to the finish? Different kettle of fish for Jeff'.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    1 - Right hand. Braddock first broke his right hand against Joe Monte in 1927 and he re broke it in his very next fight against Swiderski. He claims to have often nursed it thereafter and it troubled him no end throughout his career. Oftentimes he would land it once and then fight one-handed in those wilderness years when he was fighting to live. By the time of his comeback, the hand had completely healed and Braddock was able to use it without worrying for the first time since 1928.

    2 - The left hand. Braddock's left handed unveiling stunned the New York sports world. He was the very definition of a one handed fighter before his exodus. His left, was a fifth leg on a donkey.

    In 1932 John Henry Lewis totally embarrassed Braddock when they met. In 1934, Braddock embarrassed Henry. Henry hadn't been beaten since Rosenbloom edged him in '32, and he had beaten Rosenbloom twice since in non-title fights. He was at his peak, I think. Lud Shabazian wrote that "The Braddock of 1932 had no left hand. The Braddock of 1934 seemed all left hand." The Lewis win is overlooked. They put him in with Lewis to make him go away. Braddock never beat fighters like Lewis, ever. Every single fighter of that type that he met beat him wide. Lewis of '34 was likely the best fighter of this type that he ever met.

    The story, and I think the story may even have been true, is that Braddock had become ambidextrous - as much as that could be possible - having been forced to work only with his left hand on the docks when his right hand uselss.

    3 - Size and condition. With apologies to Seamus, who hates this kind of thing, Braddock was "lean and sinewy" when in training for Corn Griffin. The docks had left him in excellent condition. He was unquestionably in the best shape he had been for years. Proper training camps augmented this and he, for the first time, took on the dimensions of a HW. He gained weight - good, strong weight - with every fight of his comeback, peaking at 199 against Farr. Braddock is also said to have gained an inch in height in this time! Seriously.


    Johnny Dundee said this of Braddock: "Old fighters never change - except this time. He's a completely new fighter."

    Of course, but he was never expected so widely to lose - not even against Baer. And it adds a nice progression to his comeback - #1 prospect, #1 proponent of his stylistic nightmare, #1 contender, #1.
     
  3. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Wow, that really adds clothes to the argument of Braddock's transformation.

    To be honest, I'd always considered him a top class journeyman type who had a purple patch. Judging by your posts here McGrain, I'd be happy to say there was a top level fighter waiting to burst out of him once he wasn't living in abject poverty.
     
  4. Nightcrawler

    Nightcrawler Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :thinkgreat write up on braddock's evolution. might give him a second look
     
  5. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Braddock claimed that swinging the tie hook with his left hand improved his left in the ring . He got the idea to beat Baer with the jab, after seeing Loughran do it, of course he himself had first hand experience of the Loughran left hand .
     
  6. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Sorry, Johnson and beyond.
     
  7. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    I'm not sold on Willard beating a prime Jeff meself ;-)
     
  8. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Willard was pretty damn durable, too, and I think would outbox Jeff is a boring affair.
     
  9. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Surely he could beat the Ruiz type fighters that have existed... SURELY
     
  10. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Williard was more atrocious than Jeff..... that is pretty bad... I put williard right alongside John
     
  11. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Absolutely not. I hold Ruiz very highly in head to head matches against non-dynamic puncher types.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Poor old Jeffries must be turning in his grave right now!

    People have no apreciation for how highly he was rated in his own day.

    By the time he was at the top of his game, he could outbox prety much anybody around, and outpunch prety much anybody around.

    Realisticaly, I think that to beat Jeffries you would have to be outstanding at something.

    You would have to either be an out and out technician, or a serious finisher.

    Braddock isn't realy either.
     
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    His is the most dramatic narrative in the sport's history. You gents know, when you think about it, that The Ring isn't Disney. For this to happen, there has to be technical and physical progression. Braddock gets lost on hardcore boxing fans a bit in my opinion, specifically because of the dramatic "storybook" narrative. But there is hardcore boxing fundamentals upon which this was based.

    Indeed.

    But you know, presumably, that I know how highly he was rated in his own day? I think i'm the only guy on the forum that insists that he was rated more highly than Sullivan.
     
  14. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Perspective is a wonderful gift to judgement.
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    There is a difference between knowing it and appreciating what it means.

    Was everybody in that era either delusional or stupid, or must he have been incredible to be so highly rated, even alowing for a generous dose of over rating?

    My guess is that in order to beat Jeffries, you had to either be an exceptional boxer, or an exceptional finisher.