I think Larry Holmes was jealous of Ali

Holmes is boring to watch. Just a boring person/character in general.

 

Thanos the MAD TITAN!!!!

 

I think he did get along with most of his opponents after his career. I think he tried getting along with Frazier, but Frazier had a chip on his shoulder too. Never got over the pre-fight hype bruising.


Frazier has even mocked Ali for his condition, which is ironic given that Ali outlived him.

 

I think were Ali used his mouth and made it as personal as possible, Louis had his dead pan approach.

 

The chip was pretty understandable. You don't get to call someone an Uncle Tom like Ali did and then chalk it up to hype.

 

That was much more a two-way street than people want to pretend now.

Joe, very early in the build up to FOTC, made a point of calling Ali "Clay", and after Ali's run ins with Patterson and Terrell on the matter it would be very naive to see it other than as a provocation.

Frazier also has criticized Ali for refusing the draft.

Of course, he was well within his rights to make light of one and criticize another of Ali's life changing decisions - decisions that Ali received many death threats and also a possible attempt on his life (he was shot at when training for Quarry I) for - but Ali was just as well within his rights to see Frazier as an "Uncle Tom" for doing so.

 

In other news; scientists discover that water flows downhill...

 

Uh no. Ali got that ball rolling. Frazier's mind didn't even work that way.
Frazier supported Ali, lending money and even speaking to Nixon on his behalf.

 

It did.

There is also film of Frazier making fun of Ali after FOTC (from 31.45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igrLhvKMxHg). Telling the audience about how crazy he acted in the ring - quoting Ali as saying "Don't you know I'm God".

In my experience making fun of an opponent after a fight is much more rare than doing it in the build-up. Especially for the winner to do so. I don't know of any instance when Ali made fun of Joe after beating him.

 

Ali initially acknowledged Frazier beat him,and then flipped the script claiming he won. Ali had been ranting that Joe was a Tom and was a naive Christian. Ali claiming he was God is low budget.

 

:blood

 

Well, if you listen to the clip he started saying Ali was sick in the head. And then went on to ridicule him. About someone he beat.

And, as I said, even before the fight he insisted on using Clay instead of Ali.

 

You're spot on :good


Ali certainly went over the top in his mickey taking of Frazier but as you point out,Joe did his fair share. A lot of people seem afraid to admit this or are in denial. Frazier also made snide remarks about Ali's illness.

 

Many here are a bit too infatuated with the image of the no nonsense blue collar underdog.

Frazier and Ali felt a very strong mutual rivalry. The main gripe Joe had I think was that Ali came out on top both inside and outside the ring.

This article on Frazier actually suggests he started call Ali for Clay already in the late 60's:

"Frazier began to study Ali. When he went to watch him fight in March of 1967 the two began what would become years of competitive bantering. While Ali had changed his name from Cassius Clay to Muhammad Ali in 1964 when he converted to the Black Muslim faith, Frazier insisted on calling him Cassius Clay. "

http://www.encyclopedia.com/topic/Joe_Frazier.aspx

 

Body punching.