I think Larry Holmes was jealous of Ali

Ali was a **** to Frazier after Joe backed him when he was in exile. Once again, Ali gets a pass. Holmes had it right with Ali; he was OK as long as he was the star of the show, if someone took the shine off him, he hated it.

I remember seeing him in an interview with David Frost where he was really racist and against mixed race marriages; imagine if Jerry Quarry had come out with such bile? Yes, Ali was indoctrinated by the Nation of Islam, but he still spouted horrible ****. Once again, he is forgiven!

On the original post, I do think Ali was better than Holmes overall. I'm not even sure Holmes could survive Frazier.

 

I am in complete agreement with paras 1 and 2 of this post.

 

He was jealous of the Ali fame and clout but Ali also fought the best of his era and Holmes did not so in that department he couldn't carry Ali's jockstrap

 

How didn't he fight the best of his era? He missed out on some contenders but I think he made it clear the he was very much the man in the division at the time.

 

I said it often but those split tiles gave him an out to let the better fighters fight the better fights, Holmes skipped Tate, Page,Dokes,Thomas,Coetzee,Weaver when they all were co-champions and did not rematch tough fights Witherspoon,Williams,Weaver,Norton

could you imagine if Ali did not rematch Frazier or Norton for # 3, Holmes also picked his spots and fought 2 guys with 10 fights, 12 fights,13, fights 14 fights 15 fights and picked quite a few out of the crib....How many did Ali miss?

 

Ali was the one wh initiated the persnal attacks. Frazier personally asked Nixon to grant Ali a license he wasn't calling him a draft dodger at this point. Frazier was befuddled that someone would bring religion up in the context of a fight. He had been adamant that someones religious beliefs were their business. It is naive to buy into the Saint Ali hype.

 

And Ali was a jerk when it came to being a husband, and with women.

 

Ali was no saint. But neither was Joe. And it's really you who make him out as one. You can't accept he was part in a slaggging match that he went on to lose.

As I've shown, Joe referred to Ali as Clay from the start really, something that was known to provoke Ali. Perhaps Ali would have called Joe an "Uncle Tom" anyway. Ali often insulted and provoked his opponents and he certainly felt an unusually intense rivalry against Joe.

But the fact is that Joe was very much involved himself in the slagging match by using "Clay". And quite possibly Ali really saw him as an "Uncle Tom" for taking the side of those that scorned Ali for refusing to use what he perceived as a slave name.

 

Yep. Really makes him unique among fighters, doesn't it?

 

Context is key.

Ali was all about pushing the boundaries. The things he said, even the mean things, were all done to boost his image. Which was the smart thing for him to do. Louis was a hero in a hush hush sort of way. Ali was the most popular and iconic person on Earth for a long period of time. Completely unprecedented for a black man. He may have done more for his race than any other man in history. That argument can be made.

Frazier never took things as tongue in cheek, even when they clearly were. He couldn't see the forest for the trees. All he knew was that he was nice to Ali once, and then Ali said bad things about him to hype the fight. That's as far as he could see.

Ali went on to do incredible things after boxing. He saved hostages, became a voice of peace for the world, and did incredibly lucrative things for charity.

All I know about Joe's post boxing career was that he was a bitter man. So bitter he resorted to making fun of Ali's condition. See the difference?

 

Saint Ali hype?

Ali went from getting kicked out of a restaurant for being black, to having Americans emotionally invested in Africa.

It is way more naive to fool yourself into thinking he wasn't as great as he said he was!!

 

I think Larry Holmes was a large black man who fought professionally and had a good jab.

 

Definitely :good The likes of Tyson,Frazier and Robinson lived like monks !

 

Love this post,Bokaj. Some seem frightened of admitting that Frazier was provocative,himself,towards Ali at times.


Joe was referring to Muhammad as 'Clay' as early as 1966.

 

And let's not forget that Monzon freaking killed his wife and LaMotta thought he had at one point. But these guys get less flak for being muderous, ****** (at least LaMotta) psychopaths than Ali does for sleeping with tons of beautiful women.

This forum at times...