I Underate Rocky Marciano!

Patterson style-wise is a good choice, but there's always the chin issue. I'd have no problem favoring him, and would easily favor Liston.

 

I think people are over rated Patterson when they start making him a favor over Marciano. Patterson will charge in, and Marciano will find him. He would not need to chase Floyd down.

 

My all-time best heavyweights:

1. Muhammad Ali
2. Jack Dempsey
3. Rocky Marciano
4. Joe Louis
5. Evander Holyfield
6. George Foreman
7. Larry Holmes
8. Lennox Lewis
9. Mike Tyson
10. Wladimir Klitschko
11. Gene Tunney
12. Ezzard Charles
13. Vitali Klitschko
14. Sonny Liston
15. Jack Johnson
16. James J Jeffries
17. James J Corbett
18. Max Schmelling
19. Harry Wills
20. Bob Fitzsimmons

 

Any were below ten is under rated him imo. 12 is too low.

 

Rocks size is what does him in every time but he is a lot more athletic than people think. Rocky Had great hand eye coordination, also the intangibles of fearlessness, toughness and determination. He was always prepared to go 15
hard rounds throwing every shot to maim you. Hard shots in round 1 through 15.

He was always in superhuman condition he trained and punished his body full tilt and got every ounce out of his strengths.

However many less dedicated or talented heavys would roll him based on sheer size and strength 185 lbs is just too small and at 5'10'" thats just too much to give away and at some point size becomes a factor

 

Well Tyson and Fraizer did ok at 5'10.

 

The remarkable thing about Rocky was that nobody gave him a chance of being a good pro, let alone a legend.
He was told several times that he just wasn't big enough, young enough or skilled enough to be anything more than a clubfighter.
Even Al Weill at first was quite non-commital towards Rocky and decided to let Marciano either sink or swim in Providence, where many of his earlier fights took place. (Luckily Rocky swam and proved himself to Weill.)
In short, I think Marciano, when all is said and done, exceeded everybody's expectatoins of him as a fighter.

He wasn't like Louis or Tyson who were basically expected to rule the division. He wasn't some Olympic medalist of whom great things were expected like Muhammad Ali or George Foreman.
He had an uphill struggle his whole life to prove that he was as good as he thought he was.
That in my mind, took incredible balls and self-belief.

Yes, it definitely helped having a world-class trainer like Goldman in his corner and a powerful manager like Weill backing him, but none of that would have mattered in the long run had Marciano never had the basic package to begin with.

Aesthetically there have been more graceful, slicker fighters and there have been more talneted fighters and more powerful fighters, but in my mind there has never been a more effective fighter, at least at heavyweight.
Marciano was the ultimate 'clutch' fighter - when he needed to win big, he did. When he needed to find a knockout punch from somewhere, he did. When he was behind on points and needed to turn things around, he did.
Whatever the circumstances he found himself in, no matter how desperate things were, he came up with an answer. Always.

Had Rocky found himself in Tyson's position against Douglas in Tokyo, he would have won. Somehow, someway he always won.

 

Maybe if he was allowed to carry a baseball bat. Even then, it's 50/50 whether the breeze of his swing won't knock him down.

 

Well, you know, to make a Top10 list of all times, it´s very close, I can also easily switch some names in my list sometimes. I had Jeffries ahead of Johnson, because he totally dominated his pretty strong era, he fought everyone and beat also everyone (almost everybody by KO), he didn´t have 50 fights against journeymen/ bums or so, be beat fighters like Fitzsimmons, Jackson, Corbett, Sharkey, etc., Johnson on the other side struggled much more, had some L´s against at the best mediocre fighters, was KD against some fighters what was really scary, had also good wins, but the names are better than the opponents actually were. McVea, Langford, etc. were all very young, unexperienced and green when Johnson fought them, and he still didn´t beat them clearly, especially against Jeanette he had many problems (although Joe had only a couple of fights), IMO if Jeffries had been retired he would be much higher today in the rankings, and rightfully so IMO...

 

You don´t need to cry around. I mean, let´s immagine, what would happen if I start a thread in the General Boxing Forum and say that PBF is just an overrated gay who´s very lucky, and who wouldn´t beat one single ATG in his prime (at his natural weight 135 lbs for example), if than some angry fighting fans are saying something like "Just **** off!" (the same I said analogous to you, I didn´t insult you impetuous or you family or so, that would have been below the belt) I must figure on that, and that would be also correct than. But I agree, I have to apologise, sorry for the swore-word.

 

From Joyce Carol Oates' essay/book "On Boxing" :

"..... Marciano was willing to seclude himself from the world, including his wife and family, for as long as three months before a fight. Apart from the grueling physical ordeal of this period and the obssessive preoccupation with diet and weight and muscle tone, Marciano concentrated on one thing : the upcoming fight. Every minute of his life was defined in terms of the opening second of the fight. In his training camp the opponent's name was never mentioned in Marciano's hearing, nor was boxing as a subject discussed. In the final month Marciano would not write a letter since a letter related to the outside world. During the last ten days before a fight he would see no mail, make no telephone calls, meet no new acquaintances. During the week before the fight he would not shake hands. Or go for a ride in a car, however brief. No new foods ! No dreaming of the morning after the fight ! For all that was not the fight had to be excluded from consciousness. When Marciano worked out with a punching bag he saw his opponent before him, when he jogged he saw his opponent close beside him, no doubt when he slept he "saw" his opponent constantly - as the cloistered monk or nun chooses by an act of fanatical will to "see" only God.
Madness ? - or merely discipline ? - this absolute subordination of the self. In any case, for Marciano, it worked."

 

Good post! It showed what an animal he was!

 

These are all excellent points! You could not outbox him for the whole fight cause he was gonna getcha sooner or later. He had the impregnable chin to take anyone's best punchers. Marciano was amazing. By the way, I think it is so hard to rate the alltime heavyweights. I forgot Frazier, Patterson, Norton, Langford, Joe Jeanette, Sam McVey in my list. Too many eras to cover and names to remember. It is easier to rate guys on a 5-year basis IMO. Or a 10-year basis at most because so much changers from decade to decade.

 

I agree with most of these points.
I like your top 5 too (Marciano, Ali, Dempsey, Tunney and Louis).
Many people here will tell you Tunney didn't do enough to belong in the all-time heavyweight rankings, but I'd' put him up high too.
:good

 

Yeah, the man lived like a fighter, like a gladiator.