I want an insite into the mind of those rating Bernard Hopkins amongst the top 5 P4P

I have never said that resume should never be considered. I have said it shouldn't govern solely.

Pacman displayed his weaknesses because he faced better fighters than PBF did.

Furthermore is insanely difficult, when none of the mentioned have met elites(as I rate their opposition at time fought, meaning Kostya, Eubank, and Zab)

 

My bad. :good

I see what you are saying. And that is pretty ****ed up for lesser known fighters trying to make a name. I actually thought a while back when Shane and DLH were fighting for the 154 Lb crown, "How are these guys the best 154 when they've barely fought anyone else?" It's a sonofabitch of a situation for some fighters.

That said, while some of these guys are older, they are proven against top fighters. And a fighter who's proven, even older, still is dangerous till knocked off their perch. Look at Fransico Bojado vs. Jesse James Jeija or Mark 'Too Sharp' Johnson vs Fernando Montiel. Both fights the younger guy was supposed to beat the aging fighters, but it didn't happen as it did on paper. I can't say Joe C or anyone beats Hopkins stricly because of his age. When Hopkins very noticably looks like he's an old man that's one thing. But just slowing down compared to his younger version isn't enough. That's where I'm coming from.

 

Your posts for the most part have been really good. Definitely the most unbiased Danish poster we have on ESB. Probably the only one who doesn't post solely about Kessler either.

 

Last elite guy he faced was Castillo 5 years ago(pre-Oscar). Why would he need Hatton when he seemingly has been cemented at no. 1, while beating has-beens for 5 years?

 

I agree with that. I personally think of pacquiao as #1 just because he hasn't taken an easy fight since hes fought Barrera basically. After Castillo (5+ years ago) floyd fought about 8 C+ B level fighters..Then fights Judah baldomir and DLH... Floyd is only LB 4 LB #1 right now because hes moved up in weight but his quality of opposition has been **** for 5 years...He has done just enough to get by and Personally I think he is hanging on his "lb 4 lb #1" spot by a very thin thread.

 

I think it would just be better for the sake of boxing if they made the lb 4 lb list only based on 1 criteria and that is who you face and how many people you beat...(it almost is entirely like that but not quite)

It would work a hell of a lot better if they completely neglected physical talent and ability because it really doesn't matter.

Example: do you think anyone is going to give a **** about Edwin Valero if he keeps knocking out cab drivers in the 1st round? Hell no. Not with a division like that at 130 with people like soto/guzman/JMM/pacman/barrera etc..Sure he has the KO power to KO 1,000 D+ fighters and even if he did KO 1,000 bums i'd still rate Pacquiao higher than him

 

Thank you - flattery always make me blush - I love boxing, and it would be too narrowminded of me to just follow one fighter(what would I do when he retires, we won't get another of such calibre for 20 years ).

Having said that, I feel that most danes get hammered as being biased, when I feel they are trying to be neutral and levelheaded about things.

Most danes acknowledges JC as a great fighter, and know it will be tough, while I sense a fair share on the other side of the fence don't do the same, but still accuses the danes of incompetence and bias.

 

What worth has it to move up, when the opposition has been **** at that weight class? TBH I had him at 7th spot pre-Oscar(when just looking at resume). Alot of people have way better resume than PBF had at 130-140, if we go back 5 years. Why isn't Taylor in top spot? Because we all know its on a bleak basis, even if the opposition appear to be great, and he has looked far from convincing in those fights(probably handed a helping hand from a judge or two).

 

Exactly how I felt, and exactly how I also feel concerning the Taylor-Hopkins, Tarver-RJJ, Tarver-Hopkins, Taylor-Wright, Hopkins-Wright circle-jerking.

Very true - some lasts longer than others, but Mark wasn't so old, and Bojado was pretty green, but I understand your point. If they are still beat top guys, age don't matter. However, in the case of Hopkins I feel that looks deceives a bit.

Tito and Oscar seems like great wins and they are of course, as they were both elites and not far from prime, but they played into Hopkins strengths, and wouldn't so likely expose his weaknesses(lower workrate) - he was bigger and could bully them, so the risk lessened, while the reward remained the same.

I reward fighters when they take a challenge they could very well lose. RJJ to a tiny risk fighting at HW, but did so vs the recognized weakest. Hopkins took a tiny risk fighting at LHW, but vs a likewise faded and unstable Milk Dud. Of couse Hopkins couldn't know how bad, Tarver would look, but it was still a great reward vs risk.

As I have said earlier in the thread its hard to gain recognition, when avoided, so we agree there also. JC has been avoided, and especially since he dismantled Lacy; simply too much risk vs reward for the big names.

 

Yes, Jones and Tarver were at their best at 38 and 36. Good Call. Hopkins is at his best at 42. Just wait and see at 45 ***zaghe will reach his prime.

 

Some fighters CAN get better with age, its happened before, and probably will happen again.

And while I DO agree with you, until Tarver beat Jones, Jones was the best 175 pounder in the world EASY. Making Tarver, after knocking him out, clearly the best 175 pounder in the world...

All this ****** can be blamed on milkdud, who after claiming the no. 1 spot at 175 went on to have 2 fights with Johnson (at the time, one of the best, should of been unification, but were stripped), then after Johnson, waited like a YEAR to have a third fight with a 2 year lay off Jones... That's where the problem started, where already oldish men started waiting a year or so to fight even older men. Then went and did Rocky 6.... So again, all blame on milkdud!

But Roy WAS the man, followed by Tarver... Meaning when Hopkins did beat him, Tarver was still the no. 1 guy.

 

Godzaghe has no prime, he is supernatural. It's likely the supernatural being doesn't retire until he's 95-0, with 40 KO's.:smoke