I want an insite into the mind of those rating Bernard Hopkins amongst the top 5 P4P

But if Dela Hoya beat Floyd at 154, it would have been DAMN impressive... And Floyd started at 130... So that's 24 pounds.

Trindad started at 147... Making it 13 pounds...

Trinidad at middleweight is nothing like Floyd at heavyweight. It's more like Floyd at 140 or 147, where if you win over him, you become p4p.

Straight up.

 

No **** wins @ 147 don't count @ 160 in reality. But this is P4P we're talking. And it's the SAME FIGHTER none the less. So in a P4P sense, they do count. It's highly doubtful you were even watching boxing then, from the way you post.

And thankfully, NO ONE uses the ridiculous criteria you employ. Guys do NOT move off the P4P list because they move to another division. If they did that, there would be no P4P lists. It would be full of guys who sat in their weak divisions their whole career's living off one or two wins.

 

By removing resumes and accomplishments from pound for pound talks, he is simply trying to use a criteria where Calzaghe's non-existent resume can be considered pound 4 pound. IMO.

 

Got to this debate late. Damn. How can Trinidad have it both ways? He was a starved, malnutritioned WW and then he was a blown up MW like it would have made any difference that night against Hopkins. What a blatant attempt to bash the old man. Actually, beating Johnson and Echols twice along with the other 20 fighters is what has him ranked so high.

 

:happy

 

Its okay i read back. I still disagree though. An undefeated multiple weight world champion who just just totally demolished a solid contender at his new weight class. Why would anyone have any reason to doubt his ability or punching power with the increased weight? Boxing experts were fairly unanimous in their picks that he would actually beat Hopkins, because he had really shown no signs of fading at this stage of his career.

 

I agree... but its still subjective. How do you HONESTLY know?

The only fight we have is William Joppy... Now you said that Hopkins was the best fighter at 160... Yet he couldn't do to William Joppy what Trinidad did YEARS after Trinindad finished him... So how can that one fight prove that Trinidad at 160 was not as good as the Trinidad at 154, who many AT THE TIME were somehow claiming was one of the best 154 pounders ever (which I do NOT agree with). 6 pounds ain't changing anything, especially when it seemingly didn't effect him in his one and only fight at the weight before Hopkins (Mayorga and Wright were after retirement, hence they don't count).

Beating Trinindad AT 160 pounds was better than anything Calzaghe did... including if he beats Kessler on Nov. 3rd...

Still waiting for your answer to my what if?

 

That's 100% right. CHJ and Amsterdam need to change their criteria to justify Joe's placement. They **** on Hopkins, Taylor, and Wright and call them old or overhyped so they can discredit each one.

Look at how CHJ states Hopkins wins of Winky or Tito are meaningless, but they talk about how badley Joe C would beat Winky or Tayor.:huh

Amsterdam is a fine poster when it comes to other fighters, when it's about Joe C, it's a classic case of the blind leading the blind. NO offense Amsterdam. Just lose sidekick. He's **** w/o you there to help him.:deal

Head to head have NEVER been used for determing P4P because ANYONE can justify their list by simply stating, "XXX beats YYY IF they ever fought and that's why XXX is places higher." It's WAY to open to personal bias or hatred.

 

Its easier to remain unbeaten, when avoiding prime fighters, and its hard to become well respected when avoided.

I have alot of respect for Wright, because he has taken the long and hard road to success. But he has no longer prime, he is somewhat worn after so many fights throughout europe and top fights. I have alot of respect for Hopkins, but rating fights as if they both were in their primes is wrong; Hopkins vs Wright 8 years ago should hold more value than this year. Seemingly it doesn't in peoples minds.

Taylor... I have no respect for him at all. He has been lifting by media to this status on p4p, and what has he done? While in prime: fighting old Hopkins, featherfisted Wright, and small Cory Spinks, and has he sparkled? No, none of them have.

JC beat a prime fighter - Hopkins ditched a contract with him, Taylor dared not despite being offered 6 mil. JC is probably no longer prime either, but he is still more skilled than the other 3.

 

This is an arguement Ive seen many times China. I am just surprised that you haven't figured out that these arguements only end in stalemate. We don't understand your criteria for P4P, and you don't understand why we have Bhop in our P4P list. Are you that insecure about your opinions that you do your best to convince us otherwise?

 

Its not going to matter what we say...you wont listen...but I will try.

Lets see.

He was very recently #1.

He lost a highly debatable decision in two straight fights (fights that the majority of press row...the guys that actually MAKE the p4p rankings...had him winning....).

He then jumps two weight classes and takes on the recognized champion of the division without even a tuneup at that weight...and shuts him out.

He then fights a top 5 p4p fighter in Winky and CLEARLY beats him (something noone had done in about 9 years...Vargas and the Taylor draw withstanding, were nothing if NOT CLEAR win/draw).

He hasnt, in most peoples eyes, lost a fight since the Jones one and continues to fight top competition.

If that dont get/keep you in the top 5...well then, I dont know what does.

Again tho, seeing as how his name is being linked to Calzaghe WHEN Joe beats Kessler...I dont expect much of a unbias outlook toward Bernard from you bro.

Maybe after Hop beats him......we shall see.