IBF, WBA + WBC Belts during Calzaghe's WBO reign

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Fat Joe, Jul 15, 2008.


  1. Fat Joe

    Fat Joe Let's have it right Full Member

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    I've seen Calzaghe's WBO reign getting a bit of stick in another thread, so I have a few questions about the SMW division.

    I know Ottke held one of these titles for a long time, not sure which one. But how many other fighters have won a SMW title during Calzaghe's long WBO reign. I've got more knowledge of this division in recent years, but not so good from years back. Names like Nardiello, Lucas, Beyer etc ring a bell.


    How many times did these belts change hands?

    Can you name all of the fighters who held them?

    How much more impressive would Calzaghe's resume be if he had beaten some or all of these Champions?

    Also if you can come up with a list of SMW Champions during Calzaghe's reign, where do you place Kessler on it?
     
  2. tays001

    tays001 ESB ELITE SQUAD Full Member

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    joe hands down is the Gosple:good
     
  3. KO Boxing

    KO Boxing Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Might as well Boxrec it:

    Robin Reid, Thulani Malinga, Richie Woodhall, Eric Lucas, Marcus Beyer, Christian Sanavia, Mikeel Kessler - That's the WBC

    Charles Brewer, Sven Ottke, Alexandjro Berrio, Lucian Bute - That's the IBF

    Frankie Liles, Byron Mitchell, Bruno Girad, Anthony Mundine, Manny Siaca, Sven Ottke and Mikkel Kessler - That's the WBA
     
  4. Fat Joe

    Fat Joe Let's have it right Full Member

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    Couldn't be arsed to Boxrec it, thanks for doing it for me:good

    So Calzaghe beat

    Former/Reigning WBC Champions - Reid, Woodhall + Kessler
    Former/Reigning IBF Champions - Brewer, Lacy?
    Former/Reigning WBA Champions - Mitchell, Kessler

    That leaves Malinga, Lucas, Beyer, Sanavia, Ottke, Berrio, Bute, Liles, Girard, Mundine, Siaca.

    If I'm right a lot of these were either on their way out when Calzaghe became Champion or are new kids on the scene. So which of those names I have listed who Calzaghe didn't fight are better or on a par with the ones he did fight?
     
  5. TFFP

    TFFP Guest

    Remember, Kessler has beaten Lucas, Beyer, Mundine and Siaca :good
     
  6. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    And Liles pulled out of a fight with Calzaghe
     
  7. somerset

    somerset Active Member Full Member

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    Can't say I saw all of those but actually Bute is the one I'd've most liked to seen 'cos I think he might raise his game.

    Dunno about Lucas and Lillies but not that impressed with the rest...
     
  8. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    If you swap Pudwill, Jimenez, McIntyre, Ashira, Sobot, Gimenez

    for

    Lucas, Beyer, Sanavia, Ottke, Liles, Mundine

    then that improves his record considerably.
     
  9. Fat Joe

    Fat Joe Let's have it right Full Member

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    Very interesting. I kind of know all of these facts, but it paints a clearer picture seeing all those names linked up like that.
     
  10. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    Malinga was way passed his best by the time Joe came on the scene - tough, tough fighter but can be overlooked. Sanavia wasn't that good and the others have been pummeled by people Calzaghe beat.
     
  11. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    Pudwill was brought in as a last minute replacement for Liles - the show had to go on so it was hardly Joe's fault.
     
  12. Fat Joe

    Fat Joe Let's have it right Full Member

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    :yep

    Fights fall through for all sorts of reasons so all 6 is a big ask. But Calzaghe's record would undoubtedly look a lot better with 2 or 3 of those names on it.
     
  13. PugilisticPower

    PugilisticPower The Blonde Batman Full Member

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    I think had he beaten Ottke and a younger version of Beyer (both of whom wanted nothing to do with him, even when he infamously offered to take $1.00 to fight Ottke) and Mundine then he has a record that people will give him more credit for.

    Lucas, Sanavia, Mundine and Siaca all lose too often to be considered top dogs in my viewpoint.

    Beyer, well, his reign on the strap was teneous as there were a lot of controversial decisions but not as much as Ottke, who got so many gift decisions in the ring, you can tell anyone who brings him up as a "Ottke was the man and Calzaghe didn't want to face him" argument doesn't know the state of play of the division.

    Realistically, people who don't think he has a good career simply don't know the ability of some of the fighters he has beat, as someone pointed out, the guys Calzaghe beat have beaten (or should have beaten, i.e Reid vs Ottke) the guys he didn't beat.
     
  14. PugilisticPower

    PugilisticPower The Blonde Batman Full Member

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    SMW Champs by way of Boxrec:

    WBC

    Robin Reid - Beaten by Calzaghe

    Malinga - Beaten by Woodhall who Calzaghe beat.

    Woodhall - Beaten by Calzaghe

    Lucas - Beaten by Kessler who Calzaghe beat

    Beyer - Beaten by Kessler who Calzaghe beat, drew with Bika (many people had Bika ahead at the time) who Calzaghe beat,

    Sanavia - Beaten by Beyer who was beaten by a guy Calzaghe beat.

    IBF

    Brewer - Beaten by Calzaghe.

    Sven Ottke - CONTROVERSY. Should have lost one of the SD's to Brewer, should have lost to Mitchell and potentially should have lost to Reid.. also very close against David Starie. In my view and the view of many, Ottke lost at least 2 of the above 5 fights. If not 3-5 of them. All the fighters mentioned? Beaten by Calzaghe convincingly, even Robin Reid who got a whack job SD (go review the fight, Calzaghe had that fight won comfortably)

    Lacy - beaten by Calzaghe

    Berrio - Beaten by Poras who was beaten by Kessler who Calzaghe beat

    Lucian Bute - Undefeated but won't face Kessler.

    WBA

    Liles - Beaten by Mitchell who Calzaghe beat, also pulled out against Calzaghe

    Mitchell - Beaten by Calzaghe

    Girad - Drew with Mitchell who Calzaghe beat, refused rematch with Siaca and was stripped of title.

    Mundine - beaten by Kessler who Calzaghe beat

    Siaca - Beaten by Kessler who Calzaghe beat

    Sven Ottke - see above

    Kessler - beaten by Calzaghe.

    So, Sven Ottke, Girad and Bute remain the only guys who haven't either been beaten by Calzaghe or beaten by a guy Calzaghe beat.

    Bute is the only one of that trio who doesn't have controversy surrounding him, although he's refusing a match with Kessler.

    Can any other champion of this era show such a dominance over their division by having a majority of ex champions either be beat by him or beaten by someone he beat?

    Now you're starting to see why Calzaghe is considered to have a great career by those that know something.
     
  15. Fat Joe

    Fat Joe Let's have it right Full Member

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    Excellent analysis:good