Hi all, Simple(!) question, of the 2 sets of boxers in the International Boxing Hall of Fame - which do you rate higher? Links for the 2 groups are; The Old Timers The Modern Era I would say the modern era has the stronger boxers... Also, does anyone know how they came up with the dates to separate modern boxers and old timers? Last bout no earlier than 1943 for modern boxers just seems... random?
It's even more dramatically in favor of the modern fighters because some who are listed as old timers were modern fighters, for example Tony Canzoneri and Lou Ambers.
I think tht the bar is set much higher for an old timer to get into the hall of fame in the lower weight classes, though this dosn't necisarily hold true for the heavyweight division. There is no way that fighters like Dave Holly or Elbows McFadden would have failed to make the hall, if they had acomplished what they acomplished in the modern era, or in their own era in a higher weight class. By the same token Barry McGuigan probably would not have made the cut if he had fought in 1910 despite his cultural impact. There are a lot of historic lightweights, featherweights, bantemweights and flyweights not inducted to the hall who are more than qualified.
Absolutley. Elbows McFadden doesn't make it. I don't think there are many fighters that have faced higher competition in a single year than Elbows did in 1899. I know I bang on about this, but the mind boggles. No Lou Bogash, either. This guy was so good there are some that think he was on the duff end of decisions versus both Britton (draw) and Greb, neither of who rematched him. He holds wins over Flowers, Walker, Loughran, McTigue, Malone, O'Dowd, Moody (himself grossly underated I think, he fought draws with Tommy Farr, a NC with Dave Shade, wins over Malone, Norfolk (?) and got one win out of Bogash), look for modern guys in there that did less well, you won't have to stop at Barry McGuigan. Both men are absolute locks, but no dice. On the other hand a guy like Holman Williams, who is the type of fighter who may have fallen through the cracks if he boxed back in the day, is in. Cocoa Kid should be in though, and he's a Williams contemporary.
A new category of era separation distinguishing the time between the artificial and arbitrary imposition of the 12 round limit from that of the naturally evolved and classic championship distance should be established. The difference between the championship distance and the 12 round limit is nearly as great as that between professional and amateur boxing, and the requirements for succeeding at the top have radically changed. Anaerobic athleticism and conditioning have largely supplanted knowledgeable trainers, aerobic fitness, strategy, tactics, skill, experience, patience and psychology as chief requirements for success at the world class level.
I think that the two groups that get sold furthest short are the black lightweights of the early 1900s and the flyweights of the 1920s. There are some great great fighters there.
Jack Blackburn is in the hall as a trainer but he should also be inducted as a fighter based on his ring acomplishments. Dave Holly and Bobby Dobbs should have comfortably got in if you are going to include contemporary fighters like Kid Norfolk. Jeff Clark should not only be inducted but everybody on the voting pannel should write a letter of apology to his descendants for failing to induct him sooner. You personaly have suggested Elbows McFadden and you are right. Newsboy Brown would be in if he had comparable acomplishments in any other weight class as would Frankie Genaro, Joe Lynch. Truth be told you could easily find a dozen flyweights who more than met the criteria.
