IBRO's All-Time Rankings - Duran, Pep and Ali battled for 5th Spot; Dempsey ranked 3rd in HW

As always, George Foreman and Liston too high.

Add Langford and Tunney. I even have a problem rating Liston higher than Wlad, but ok. On a planet where Norton won 2/3 against Ali, he might make top 20 too.

 

Exactly. Take Frazier for example, he's 1-4 vs Ali and Foreman, yet he's 10th? I'd move him more toward 15. Norton should have two wins vs Ali. Tunney is there because he beat Dempsey badly twice. His resume is thin at heavy outside of that. Walcott and Charles gave Joe Louis and Marciano trouble, but are way too high and really don't belong. Maybe 30 years ago they belonged. Liston is the oddball, he flopped vs Ali, and beat lesser competition relative to those who made the list, yet get a high spot. Lewis remains under rated. Johnson is way over rated. Marciano over rated, though he did better work than many on the list in title fights.

 

Frazier may be 1-4 vs Ali and Foreman but he didn't lose to guys like Brewester, Sanders, Mccall, Douglas etc.

I am pretty sure a lot of great heavyweights (including Lewis and Wladamir) would be 1-4 against Ali and Foreman. I can't see Lewis standing up to the thundering firsts of Big George when lesser fighters staggered him (aka Briggs) and he was ko'd twice.

 

Frazier didn't face any puncher aside from Foreman. Had he fought Brewester, Sanders, McCall, Douglas, he's probably losing at least one of them via TKO/KO. I think Lewis beat Foreman or Ali straight up. Wlad 50.50

Briggs was a huge puncher.

Lyle nearly Ko'd Foreman, Jimmy Young out boxed him. Neither of these two match the skills, speed, size, or power of Wlad or Lewis. Foreman would be a small man next to these two. Yeah he has a puncher's chance, but winning on points in unlikely for Foreman.

Ive been watching a bit of Ali lately. What made him great is intangibles, willpower, and durability. He had a slapping like hook, no uppercut, no body punching. A solid right hand and jab, but he's far more limited than many realize. Oh, he could clinch well when needed.

 

He routinely weighed in above or below within five pounds of cruiserweight. Most cruiserweights weigh about 215 and cut down to 200; so he's not bigger than modern cruiserweights. Also, most of his opponents would be cruiserweights too. It depends on your working definition of heavyweight. At the time he fought it meant anything above 175 pounds. Now, it means anything above 200 pounds. Just because you can fight above your natural weightclass and have success does not mean that is where you would be best rated. Ezzard Charles and Gene Tunney are light heavyweights even if they did capture the heavyweight crown. Using a modern definition of cruiserweight, Louis, Marciano, and Dempsey are all cruiserweights.

 

I will have to respective fully disagree.

Yes Ali had limitations and he wasn't unbeatable. But his speed is something Lewis has never seen before. In a 12 rounder, Ali's conditioning (the 1967 version) would allow him to set an insane pace. Lewis struggled vs an overweight Mercer who had a good jab, and beat a past it Holyfield in a reasonably close fight. Ali has far greater speed and a greater reach than either of them.

Ali hit hard enough to stop Lyle with his right hand or Bonavena with his left. He staggered the iron jawed Foreman early in the fight. Lewis is a risk averse fighter who will simply struggle with the pace Ali sets and his blinding speed. I could see him landing a few hard rights on Ali but he is way to cautious to land too many and if he gets too aggressive with Ali, Ali could ko him.

On the other hand, Ali thrived on handling punchers. Lewis is too big, too slow and too cautious to beat Ali. And I don't think he has the chin to stand up to Foreman either.

I agree that Foreman will not outpoint Lewis or Wladamir. Young was a small slick hard to hit heavyweight. Neither Lewis or Wlad were small or elusive.

Yes, Foreman nearly lost to Lyle. But Lyle was a puncher. Foreman also fought Briggs, Cooney, Morrison etc and never went down.

McCall and Rahman put Lewis away with one punch. Wladamir lost to guys like Sanders, Brewester, and Purity. I will take Foreman's chin over either of these guys.

Foreman was a similar size to guys like McCall, Rahman, Sanders, etc. These guys may have been 10-15 lb heavier but were a similar height and weren't the monster punchers Foreman was. I can't see Lewis or Wladamir making it out of round 5 against Foreman. If they do, they could win.

 

On Foreman, Ali and Frazier fans over rate him big time. He was big puncher with a small gas tank.

Foreman did poorly vs the best boxers in Ali and Young. He looks terrible in both matches.

Lyle showed Foreman's his chin limitations. I think Briggs, Sanders, and Brewster his close to Lyle, maybe better. And Wlad and Lewis certainly hit harder than Lyle.

Wlad and Lewis were master boxers and hit harder than Lyle. Plus they had better range, defense and footwork. You're telling me that Foreman takes their best? Not for long. Foreman could KO them too, but put you money on skills, footwork, and defense first, and if it goes rounds, energy levels next.

Judging on the amount of breaks Ali took, and his limitations, Wlad and Lewis could very well out box him. Ali never face anyone like them and dropped to many rounds to guys Lewis and Wlad would not.

 

I like these ranking better than the heavyweight rankings Roy Jones is too low. None of the modern light heavies were proven great, but Bivol or Beterbiev might be some day.

We shall shall see where Golovkin rates at middle. Check that, he didn't make the top 20, which is a stain

 

Dempsey at #3 is utterly bizarre to me, either on h2h, and certainly on resume. He somehow consistently is rated ahead of Tunney even though Tunney beat him twice. Makes one wonder why we have fights. There are other problems. Lennox Lewis way down at 9th. Wlad Klitschko at #18. If we go by resume rather than h2h, a fair enough standard, Marciano can be justified where he is, having swept his opposition while fighting and beating the best of him time. Dempsey of course rates higher even though he ducked one top challenger and then lost badly to the next top challenger.

I suppose this might be considered an overly strong statement, but I think rating Dempsey at #3 makes this list worthless, regardless of what I think of the rest of the placements.

 

This post I fully agree with.

 

You have to understand the group doing the voting. They will take about how many title defense Joe Louis and Bernard Hopkins had for example but the same logic does not apply to Wlad Klitschko, or GGG. Most members won't rank active fighters.

Dempsey fans in the group are difficult to reason with. They will say he crushes guys today using Willard as an example. Never mind that Willard old and rusty in that fight. Whatever you do don't point out how many punches it took to finish him.

Lewis isn't liked, but is starting to be respected.

 

Mala lista, Muhammad Ali no es el número uno

 

Roy Jones beats everyone on this list