If a 44 years old B-Hop beats Pavlik and then beats Dawson...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by gilad, Oct 14, 2008.


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  1. gilad

    gilad Active Member Full Member

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    Does he have a case for being the best fighter ever ?
     
    gilad, Oct 14, 2008
    gilad, Oct 14, 2008
    #1
  2. TanstA

    TanstA Legendary Full Member

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    yes but it wont happen.
     
    TanstA, Oct 14, 2008
    TanstA, Oct 14, 2008
    #2
  3. Blue145

    Blue145 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    hmmmm maybe, people would just say the above fighters were overrated to counter the argument.
     
    Blue145, Oct 14, 2008
    Blue145, Oct 14, 2008
    #3
  4. gilad

    gilad Active Member Full Member

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    Sugar Ray Robinson has clear loses, so does everybody else who is considerd all time great. For me, he will have a case because:

    If B-Hop beats those two it means that in a career that lasted 20 years he had only one clear L and not to mention never got dominated in the ring. He never lost, or was close to losing, in his prime (1997-2001). Besides that, obviuosly, being 10 years middleweight champ with 20 title defenses and Lightheavyweight champion at the age of 41. You can add the fact that he fought around 10 top 10 pound for pound fighters in his long career.
     
    gilad, Oct 14, 2008
    gilad, Oct 14, 2008
    #4
  5. Spitfire7

    Spitfire7 Gadfly Full Member

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    Nope. For the sole reason that Pav beats Grampa X Saturday into retirement.
     
    Spitfire7, Oct 14, 2008
    Spitfire7, Oct 14, 2008
    #5
  6. jabo

    jabo Active Member Full Member

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    hopkins is still one of the best

    not the most entertaining but one of the best of all time
     
    jabo, Oct 14, 2008
    jabo, Oct 14, 2008
    #6
  7. hitman6616

    hitman6616 Active Member Full Member

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    there is no one in the world (aside from Hopkins himself) who would like to argue that yes he would but quite simply he STILL hasnt done the same body of work as a Ray Robinson.

    IF he beat Pavlik and Dawson he would have to be remembered in the top 10 and possibly even top 5......

    but Ray Robinsons body of work and resume speaks for itself.

    Hopkins is already a legendary fighter. one who I belive is the greatest middleweight champion of all time (and P4P one of the 50 greatest fighters to ever lace up the gloves) but greater than Sugar Ray Robinson? nope...just cant bring myself to say it. and Hopkins is my favorate fighter in the world right now.
     
    hitman6616, Oct 14, 2008
    hitman6616, Oct 14, 2008
    #7
  8. BoxingGuru

    BoxingGuru Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Hopkins won't even win on Saturday because he throws 5 punches a round and holds all night and Pavlik throws 100 a round and really likes to fight, not wrestle.
     
    BoxingGuru, Oct 14, 2008
    BoxingGuru, Oct 14, 2008
    #8
  9. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Of course not, unless you think he's a small step away right now and/or unless you think beating Pavlik and Dawson would in itself make him one of the best ever. And why is age, in itself, so relevant here?
     
    Decebal, Oct 14, 2008
    Decebal, Oct 14, 2008
    #9
  10. gilad

    gilad Active Member Full Member

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    I love old time fighters and especially Ray Robinson. But damn, those guys are human and have their own weaknesses. We love remembering only the good form the past.
    I know to say something bad about Robinson is the ultimate sin but I'll do so: He lost to the Raging Bull in his prime, lost to Randy Turpin, and was outboxed in the second fight before he stopped him brilliantly.

    He also failed in what old B-Hop managed to do - go up to 175 and win the title. Don't get me wrong, Ray has done more than B-Hop up to now, but if B-Hop beats those two young guns, who rule their respective divisions, you can put him and Robinson on the same sentence.
     
    gilad, Oct 14, 2008
    gilad, Oct 14, 2008
    #10
  11. Arriba

    Arriba Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Best fighter ever? Nay.

    Top 20 or top 30? Absolutely.
     
    Arriba, Oct 14, 2008
    Arriba, Oct 14, 2008
    #11
  12. Pimp C

    Pimp C Too Much Motion Full Member

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    No but he jumps to a top 25 ATG.
     
    Pimp C, Oct 14, 2008
    Pimp C, Oct 14, 2008
    #12
  13. COLD-HARD-TRUTH

    COLD-HARD-TRUTH Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think if he beats Pavlik, he makes a strong argument for being the best of his era...elavating him above Jones on the top 50 ATG list....but than again, if Jones beats Slappy convincingly and Hopkins beats Pavlik, I believe Jones would should still be rated above Hopkins as an ATG. But make no mistake, Hopkins is in the top 50 of the greatest fighters of all time. There is so much era bias when it comes to rating ATG fighters but I think Hopkins would've had a decent chance of beating any middleweight in any era
     
    COLD-HARD-TRUTH, Oct 14, 2008
    COLD-HARD-TRUTH, Oct 14, 2008
    #13
  14. Zakman

    Zakman ESB's Chinchecker Full Member

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    This would certainly put him in the top 5 or ten for SURE, and make him a candidate, along with Robinson and Ali, for #1.
     
    Zakman, Oct 14, 2008
    Zakman, Oct 14, 2008
    #14
  15. gilad

    gilad Active Member Full Member

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    If Jones beats Calzaghe (I doubt it) and B-Hop beats Pavlik then I'm pretty sure the long awaited rematch between them will finally happen (Roy doesn't have the guts to face a young fighter like Dawson or to rematch Glen Johnson).
    After B-Hop will beat Roy, the discussuion will finally end.
     
    gilad, Oct 14, 2008
    gilad, Oct 14, 2008
    #15
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