If Ali began his career in 1948...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Nov 19, 2011.


  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Ignore the social differences of the time periods, and the probable lack of funding that Ali would have received early. Assume he has comparable backing, same trainers, same style, etc. How would Ali have done if he'd turned professional in 1948? Where do you see his career going?
     
  2. Ramon Rojo

    Ramon Rojo Active Member Full Member

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    Rocky and Floyd would never have become champions.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Actually, i think Rocky would have become champion. Rocky was more complete earlier (some will tell you Louis was his best performance...) and in the unlikely event that the two were matched as prospects I think Marciano would have a good chance to bang out a close win.

    If they don't meet, who do you think is getting Walcott first, the loud-mouth black guy or the white guy that says "sir"?

    Ali gets the title from him later on.
     
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  4. Ramon Rojo

    Ramon Rojo Active Member Full Member

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    Ali became a loud mouth because he was influenced by black muslims. They weren't that popular in the early 1950's.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Ali was a loudmouth way before the black muslims were on the scene.
     
  6. EverLast

    EverLast Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Ali in 1948, minus the exile, would have probably have been champ until Liston came along at least
     
  7. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Bit of food for thought here. Does Ali and Marciano meet before either are champion, say, in an eliminater, with the winner facing Jersey Joe in '52? Given both their career trajectories i think this is highly probable. I dont think Floyd or Ingo become champ. Marciano may do if he meets Ali (Cooper/Jones Ali)like i suggested above but he does not get to 56 if Ali gets another shot
     
  8. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Ali remains undefeated, wins and keeps the title as soon he gets it. Marciano would be tough fight, which he'd prevail in, maybe there'd be a rematch but he'd win that. Then who beats him, not Patterson or Liston or the rest of the 50s. And no one in the 60s either.

    Ali is champion from '52 until Frazier fights him around '69
     
  9. MagnaNasakki

    MagnaNasakki Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Marciano would be the one viable defeat I see facing Ali. It would depend when they met.

    Ali matured a bit slower than Rocky, who was a force of nature pretty quickly. Ali was young, we have to remember, and a big turning point in his career was actually getting into his 20's a bit; Getting that man strength in addition to everything else. Rock was a beast as early as I can remember seeing him.

    If he collides with Cassius Clay, I make it a 50/50 fight. I don't know if Clay of Doug Jones had the seasoning or the confidence to handle a Rocky Marciano fight.

    When Ali gets to his title defending form, though, Rocky will be on the outside looking in. Ali would cut him to ribbons.

    I think Rocky might get a hold of the title first, defend it a couple of times, maybe against Clay, but an eventual rematch sees him lose soundly, probably retire, and see's Ali reign until Frazier hits the scene and starts to peak.
     
  10. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I can't see Ali reigning until the late 60's. In our timeline, he won the title in '64 and held it off and on until '78, after which old age and Parkinson's wore him down for Holmes. Assuming he reached the title after the same number of years as a professional (1952), he'd be in the same shape that he was against Leon Spinks by 1966.

    He also got three years of R&R during his "exile" in our timeline. Here, he's fighting constantly from '48 onward against Walcott, Marciano, Patterson, Ingo, Liston, and Terrell in their primes. Plus, he'd still get Parkinson's.

    There's no way he lasts until Frazier in '69.
     
  11. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    The real world dosn't work that way.

    Although Ali could be favoured over all those fighters in principle, you can bet your bottom dollar that one of them would beat him somewhere allong the timeline.

    Same for anybody else.
     
  12. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Looking at the top contenders...

    1952 -- Both Ali and Marciano won their title shots about four years after they started their respective pro careers. They'd collide somewhere around here. Very risky fight with a younger Ali; Rocky would remain near his prime until '56. They may not face each other until after Rocky beats Walcott. I'll give Rocky the benefit of the doubt and say that he beats Ali the first time.

    1953/54-- Ali beats Marciano, and then beats him in the rematch. All three are grueling, classic fights. Ali keeps getting better during this period. Might fight Valdes or Walcott. The latter would be too old and worn at this point to make it interesting.

    1954/55 -- Ali would beat Valdes. Maybe defend against Charles as well, although he wouldn't have the close fight against Charles that Marciano did to sell the bout. I don't foresee any problems here. If a Marciano rubber match didn't happen in '53/'54, it would happen now.

    1955/1956 -- Ali would beat Moore with more trouble than he had in our timeline. D'Amato might keep Patterson away from Ali for another year or two. If he doesn't, Patterson would put up a surprisingly good showing.

    1957/58/59 -- Ali would need to fend off successive challenges from Patterson, Folley, Ingo, and Machen. He'd be slowing down a bit by now, and all of these would be tough. I could actually see Patterson winning a close decision against Ali by the late '50's, since Ali would be at least as worn down as he was in 1973 or 1974 in our timeline. Patterson would have the youth, swarming style, speed, and left hook to make this interesting.

    1960-- Ali might have enough in the tank to beat Liston the first time. Might fight Patterson again, depending on how their last fight had turned out. Don't know how that would turn out.

    1961/62 -- By this point, Liston would have won the title. Ali would be a bad style matchup for him, but he'd either beat Ali directly, or beat Patterson after Patterson beat Ali. I just can't see an old Ali surviving the simultaneous pincers of a prime Patterson and a near-prime Liston.


    His final victory tab includes:

    Walcott (probably)
    Marciano (either 2/3 or all 3 times)
    Charles
    Valdes
    Moore
    Patterson (at least one defeat as well)
    Johansson
    Machen
    Folley
    maybe Liston


    ...Not bad at all.

    The 1950's/early 60's are remembered as a "golden era" for the Patterson / Ali / Marciano / Liston quadrangle. Nobody cares much about the late 60's to mid-70's.
     
  13. junior-soprano

    junior-soprano Active Member Full Member

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    no way in hell.
    where this scenario to be true then in 1960 ali would not be as fast anymore. he would be comparable to the ali of 74.
    and alltough he had the greatest chin (or determination to hang on) of all the HW champs in history he would not win from liston by then.
    the ali from zaire would be ko'd by liston. sonny wasn't a crude slugger like foreman who would where himself out
     
  14. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ali was caught cold by a Henry Cooper punch early on in his career and recovered to win the fight. Just imagine if the person catching Ali was not Henry Cooper, but was in fact an old Joe Louis! I am not so sure that Ali gets up from that one.
     
  15. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Lots of fighters around in the late 40's early 50's that could have beaten Ali.

    Joe Louis, Charles, Walcott, Maxim, Moore, Harold Johnson, Nino Valdez, and of course Marciano.

    Ali would have lost a few, but ended up as a better overall fighter in the long run.