If Ali fought Dempsey (Both at their best) If Ali wins, what would it be by?

Imo the Dempsey era was the turning point in boxing. Fighters with better more modern style skills appeared but they didn't entirely forget some of the useful lessons of previous eras. Personally, I think inside fight is a really useful skill to have which is why I tend to rate fighters that are good on the inside over fighters that drift toward the outside but its not the end all be all.

 

Flynn was 5'11 and 190 lbs. Probably 20 lbs heavier than Dempsey was at the time, heluva lot more experience too. So you've lied twice now. Dempsey was only stopped once ever.

I've seen both Tunney fights, the Sharkey fight, the Carpentier fight, the Willard fight, the Brennan fight, the Gibbons fight, the Firpo fight, and every piece of training/sparring footage there is. I've seen all of these fights multiple times over, sometimes at quarter speed so I could actually study Dempsey's movements and techniques to implement in my own stand up game. Anything we have on Dempsey, I've seen it. I promise you, I'm probably one of the least ignorant people in the world on Dempsey's fighting style. The only things I admit I'm ignorant about are some non fight related things like who he was supposed to fight in 1918 or what he said about a certain subject. But I'm buying more and more books as time goes buy and becoming more and more educated on the subject.

 

No Dempsey’s era still looked pretty bad on film. Tunney looked good. The rest.....meh. Too bad no film of prime Greb or Wills...I’m sure they looked much better than blowhards like Fipro and Brennan

The turning point was joe Louis era...much higher quality fighters

 

Harry Greb, Tommy Gibbons, Benny Leonard, Mickey Walker, Tommy Loughran, Jimmy Wilde, these are all pretty bad? It could be argued that his era was one of the greatest in the history of the sport as far as sheer talent goes.

 

Well I meant the heavyweight division. Not lighter divisions. Most of the men Dempsey fought besides Tunney and Sharkey looked like crap on film.

 

I was referring to all divisions.

 

So your calling me a liar on something that a different publication or something different I've read ? The Tunney fights,the Firpo fight,and the Sharkey fight you may have seen on film. But the same films that I've seen doesn't show anything to me that would've given Dempsey an ice cube chance in hell of beating Ali. (What this post was originally about) Boxing is the only sport that I can think of that has actually regressed in the last 30yrs. The fighters today are terrible as far as skills are concerned. And a man at or close to 200 lbs can knock out anyone well over 200.lbs Its been proven many times. But seeing Dempsey on film theirs nothing that indicates to me or anyone without delusions of grandeur for him that would or should indicate he would have a chance against any great or very good heavyweight from the 30's up. And you can cover it the way you choose, but Dempsey was knocked out in the very 1st rd by a fighter who I've read was a 160lbs. A middleweight. So you can call me a liar if you choose, but I can call you a blind ass nostalgic fan of Dempsey the type that if Ali and Dempsey did actually fight and Ali knocked him out in the 1st rd, you would still find a way to twist the story for Dempsey. Their is NOTHING on film that indicates Dempsey would have a chance against any modern Heavy, and esp against Ali. Hell,as I've said before we really don't know if he was the best heavy of his own era, esp since he or his management refused to fight black fighters of the day. But Buy into the myth as much as you like.

 

Whilst I think Ali wins ,and by a unanimous decision, we have to remember that he was dropped and really buzzed by the smaller Henry Cooper. Dempsey, a lot harder puncher ,better chin and overall better fighter ,could in my opinion have moments of great success. It certainly wouldn't be a easy beat down from Muhammad.

 

Dempsey's opposition being weak, would not translate into a fighter from another era being able to stop him, much less stop him whenever he chose.

In order to establish something as specific as that, you would need to build some sort of case against his durability, since a fighter can fight lousy opposition and still have a chin like an anvil.

Good luck with that!

 

I really don't see how Tunney was so far ahead of what is avalible of the likes of Joe Gans, and Owen Moran years before.

And Tunney himself said Bob Fitzsimmons was the greatest, and had tons of admiration for those before.

 

I agree .. it could be a bit closer .. Dempsey's leg speed and movement in his prime is greatly over looked .. even in a fight he was a bit off, the Brennan rematch, he still had amazing spring in his legs and movement and power in the 12th .. it's a good fight.

 

OP... This might seem like a silly question (as I see Ali beating him anytime), but when do you envisage the bout taking place?
I ask this because, when I think of dream match ups, I pit the fighters against each other at the halfway point in time (regarding rules, refs, gloves, etc). And I feel that my method is a tad more relevant than usual here, as you asked for the method of stoppage.
Let's say they meet around halfway between peaks... Ummm... That would be around the end of WW2, right?
I think the refs etc, might react differently in Dempsey's or Ali's prime era.
In that case, I'll go for a battered Dempsey bravely trying to carry on. But a possible TKO which would forever be seen as controversial.
Just my take

 

There is no "may" have seen on film. I HAVE seen them on film. MANY times over. I've seen 4 other Dempsey fights on film too. Idk why you failed to mention them. Probably because your a liar.

Sounds like you don't even know what films we have on Dempsey. Check back with me once you figure it out.

Cool. So you're telling me that Dempsey at 198 against Brennan could knock out anyone well over 200 lbs but when he weighed 180 against Willard he couldn't?

So Dempsey wouldn't have a chance against Schmeling, Louis, Baer, Ezzard Charles, Jersey Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Floyd Patterson, Joe Frazier, Jerry Quarry, Pinklon Thomas, Trevor Berbick, Tommy Morrison, or Gerry Cooney? Wanna make a thread and see who agrees with you?

I think this is where this dialogue comes to a close. We will never possibly agree. You haven't reviewed enough film to even know what color hair Dempsey had.

You're blatantly lying. There isn't a single source in the world that will say Flynn was a middleweight when he fought Dempsey. Flynn had fought for the heavyweight title as early as 1906 against Tommy Burns. He weighed 170 lbs. The recorded weights since then show Flynn as being consistently above that, weighing in at 193 as early as 1912. 5 entire years prior to facing Dempsey. He was a full blown heavyweight of the era.

No, I'm just handing your ass to you in this debate. Try not to get so touchy feely.

Except for being the best heavyweight of his era, repeatedly clobbering 6'5+ heavyweights, and overall demolishing the competition.

 

I'm more getting at guys like Fitz, Johnson, Jeffries, Corbett, etc.

I'm sure all of those guys thought of the older generation as being the greatest. Tunney would beat Fitz every night of the week if they fought imo.

 

I'd say UD