If Ali Mastered Infighting

Hard to say.

I dont think he wouldve been more dominant. He was a big strong heavyweight for that era. If he had gone to the body with some force he may have ended some of this fights quicker. There may not have been as many 12-15 round fights but at the same time alot of bad things can happen on the insid. Catch elbows, headbutts etc. Its rough fighting.

I think Ali utilized his advantages to the fullest.

 

In this scenario,Ali would have been a virtual perfect fighting machine. On the rare occasion that he did indeed go for inside work,he was n't too bad at it.

 

...but he didn't...

 

I think Ali's infighting is very underrated. In Manilla, when he for once didn't get a pass with his holding and didn't have the legs to stay away, he showed he could do it when he had to.

It's the same with Ricardo Lopez to some extent. He was a very good in-fighter (better than Ali), but for natural reasons you rarely saw him show it and therefore people like to assume he couldn't fight in close. Hearns was a fighter that really was quite awful on the inside, though, at least until the later stages of his career (he does a quite respectable job on the inside in the Barkley rematch all things considered).

Ali's weaknesses from a technical standpoint that cost was his low guard (which is more the rule than exception for HWs though) and, especially, that he tended to pull straight back from punches. This cost him against Frazier and Norton and made him take unnecessary punishmment against Shavers.

A more serious flaw was probably that he tended not to take fights as seriously as he should have (neither in training nor during the actual fight) in his second career.

 

I can't think of many fights where master infighting skills would have benefited him in his prime. It would have helped later on, most notably against Shavers, Frazier 3, and Lyle though.

But it wouldn't have had any real impact in his prime. At his best Ali's unprecedented speed and agility meant that he was best served by fighting at long/medium range which is jawdropping advantages meant that his opponents literally had no chance of winning.

 

Ali was a master of holding and neck pulling and getting away with it.

Had he also mastered Holyfield's headbutting he would have been awesome.

 

Imagine if SNV was a 7 foot minimumweight, he would have unified the belts in all 17 divisions and being the GOAT in every division he ever stepped a foot in.

But he wasn't, so he is the GOAT in only one division.

 

Ali Dominates All. End of Story.

Nah, I think ETM was right in suggesting that Ali utilized his advantages to the fullest, in essence he showed some inside abilities against Frazier in Manila and also the Lyle the fight I also might add. My question is whether he would discover the need to use it against the Super Heavyweights of recent times (e.g Lewis, Bowe, Klitshko's etc.). Most of the men that Ali faced who were taller (e.g Terrell, Bugner, Wepner) Ali had no problems dealing with them but they were not as skilled as the Super-heavy's of today. In my personal opinion I think Ali I think he'd work to his strengths (his speed and fleet of foot) and therefore remain light. His best gameplan against likes of Bowe, Lewis and the Klitschko's would be to hit, move and outwork/outbox them.

He has shown ability to fight on the inside, but not to the extent were he would look to control the fight from there.

 

Ali was clearly weak on the inside. That's why Frazier and guys like Norton gave him hell. Ali was often allowed to hold illegally. This, in combination with his ability to take a beating, is why he was able to survive.

 

Seriously, look at Toney against Barkley, Williams, etc. and tell me that Ali was a good inside fighter. Ali could flurry off the ropes, but that's not the same thing as inside fighting. In general, Ali didn't throw enough body punches and was too upright to be good inside. Being taller and having longer arms than most of his opponents would have made it more difficult anyway, though as Bowe showed, it could be done.

The only times you see Ali fight inside is when he is pushed to the ropes. Have you ever seen Ali himself push someone to the ropes, put his head on their shoulder, and throw hooks to the body, while smothering/slipping the other's guys punches? On the ropes, Ali still has his hand speed and reflexes, which you see sometimes, but even then he does little actual infighting. When he's not holding and clinching, he's mostly covering up and blocking.

Technically, against Frazier, Ali should have been able to better defense the left hook, predictable as it was. He could have tried smothering it, putting his head on Frazier's shoulder, grabbing that left arm with his right, and hitting with his free hand. Or turn his upper body to the left to slip the left hook and then come back with his own hook or uppercut. Ali should have used a lot more uppercuts against Frazier, both inside and at mid-range.

 

Ok, you say that he wasn't bad for an outside fighter. I say that if it wasn't for his extraordinary ability to take a punch, he would have been knocked out. If were talking about weaknesses, then, at the top level, this is definitely a weakness, especially for a more stationary Ali.

 

Good point about Ali not taking some fights seriously in his second career,Bokaj. At his seventies best,circa 1972-74,it cost him in the first Norton fight. And even when he was way over the hill after Manilla,he should have still been able to beat Leon Spinks,and of course he was way out of shape for Jimmy Young.

 

Great points. Ali had this arrogance about him especially in his second career. Dared guys to hit him hard because he relied so much on his ATG chin though he pulled back from punches. Also could have an absolute dung-equivalent performance and get a decision he doesn't deserve. Doesn't mean he wasn arguably the greatest fighter or not one of the smartest. Thought he was brilliant at times against Frazier(Manila of course) and Norton(II) on the inside.

Not gonna go into "ATG theories":-(, but lack of size or not ya gotta respect Ali for the champ he was and dominating the best time of hvy boxing being seconded by the Louis era I believe? His smarts also a huge factor for the many quality wins he had.

Right. When you're as skilled as Ali with outboxing there really is no need to be inside. Yes he was solid there though no need to give your opponent especially smaller ones more opportunities to land clean punches.

 

If you watch the first and last of his bouts with Frazier you will see Joe had a much tougher time hitting Ali as often with his hook. Ali was timing that hook better throwing his right making Fraziers hook miss or land on his shoulder.