IF ALI never existed ...who would be considered the greatest?

Yes but overall: Joe Louis

Nobody else makes sense.

 

This makes sense to me with each man beating a somewhat faded version of the champ that came before him.

 

Joe Louis would be voted as numero uno heavy by most. Liston's reign would have lasted longer,but I could see an ageing champion being outpointed by Ernie Terrell. Frazier would beat Ernie.

 

Rocky Marciano or Jack Dempsey maybe Dempsey by the masses?

 

I think that in this scenario Joe Louis's claim would be prety much unquestioned.

I think that Liston, Frazier and Foreman were always going to unravel fairly early. What Ali did was give them the chance to unravel against a worthy adversary.

 

No way he would have continued to '86 IMO without being completely shot because he was very active. Actually now that I think about it if he kept fighting through to the 90s would he be as good as the comebacking old Foreman was? Because he would have been more active but would have took much more damage and he also wouldn't have been beating on bums because there would be no comeback.

**** man, there are a lot of questions and no real solid answers here but I'm liking just speculating.:good

 

Holmes may have got his shot earlier, Foreman wouldn't have run from the sport and Holmes would likely have his name as a win on his register. Maybe Holmes scalps an old Frazier too. That would be some resume

Liston would have a much greater career than he did

Louis is the obvious name, personally I think Lennox deserves consideration being at the world level for 11years and beating every man he faced while ducking no man.

 

In the 70's I agree that Foreman would have held the title longer,and could have held it until Larry Holmes appeared on his horizon. Always possible that Jimmy Young would have still beaten George. Then Jimmy would have lost the crown to Norton who would have defended it against Holmes.

 

I don't consider Ali the Greatest in anything other than self-promotion.

Joe Louis is the greatest heavyweight.

 

Does anybody consider the possibility that Ali might have enhanced Liston and Foremans legacies by beating them before sombody else did?

Its always best to trade up if you are going to get beaten anyway.

 

To an exent yes, but what if Liston had being champ for another 4years, or even beaten the likes of Frazier past his prime. Then again if he beat Frazier past his prime he likely wouldn't get much praise because Frazier wouldnt be considered great.

It raises the question who would be the first to beat Liston if there was no Ali? I don't see an obvious contender, Frazier aside, I can't see Ellis doing it, maybe a young Quarry stands a shot but I doubt it

 

Liston was only human though, I not sure Liston already 37 PLUS when he lost to Ali, would have made it all the way to 1968 or 69. Some young gun down the road would have beaten Liston some were.

 

my diction offends?

He was a huge self-promoter who fashioned his persona after pro wrestlers, notably Gorgeous George. He was a cultural phenomenon first and foremost. The fact he was a decent fighter is merely coincidental and complimentary.