If Ali retires after Manilla, is he still considered #1 all time?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dmt, Apr 10, 2020.


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  1. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    If Ali retires after Manilla (which is what should have happened), is he still considered #1 all time at heavyweight?

    His resume would include:

    Liston x 2
    Frazier x 2
    Foreman
    Lyle
    Norton
    Quarry x 2
    Bonavena
    Patterson x 2
    Bugner x 2
    Mac Foster
     
    dmt, Apr 10, 2020
    dmt, Apr 10, 2020
    #1
  2. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yes. He would lose some good wins in young, lyle,shavers and spinks plus being 3 times hw champion but he would not lose against the stupid guy and trevor berbick
     
    Charlietf, Apr 10, 2020
    Charlietf, Apr 10, 2020
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  3. Dance84

    Dance84 Unicorn and seastar land Full Member

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    Thats when you know you are salty for calling a professional boxer stupid for doing his job
     
    Dance84, Apr 10, 2020
    Dance84, Apr 10, 2020
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  4. Charlietf

    Charlietf Well-Known Member Full Member

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    For doing his job? Berbick did his job too. He was a stupid because he acted like an idiot not for beating old Ali
     
    Charlietf, Apr 10, 2020
    Charlietf, Apr 10, 2020
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  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes the core of his argument would still be there.
     
    janitor, Apr 10, 2020
    janitor, Apr 10, 2020
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  6. CharlesBurley

    CharlesBurley Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    He has a case but I think Lennox was better even if I like Ali more
     
    CharlesBurley, Apr 10, 2020
    CharlesBurley, Apr 10, 2020
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  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Nothing he did after Manilla really strenghtened his argument as GOAT HW. The wins over Young, Norton and Shavers could just as well all be losses.
     
    Bokaj, Apr 10, 2020
    Bokaj, Apr 10, 2020
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  8. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    I think he clearly beat Shavers, I scored it a few months ago.

    Young and Norton are debatable.
     
    dmt, Apr 10, 2020
    dmt, Apr 10, 2020
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  9. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    In terms of resume and quality of wins? I don't think Lennox's best wins are as good.
     
    dmt, Apr 10, 2020
    dmt, Apr 10, 2020
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  10. 70sFan

    70sFan Member Full Member

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    For his health I wished he had stopped after Manila. I don't really think the fights after Manila affect his legacy one way or the other. He did enough beforehand to be considered the GOAT. I really wish we could have seen what would have happened without the 3.5 year layoff.
     
    70sFan, Apr 10, 2020
    70sFan, Apr 10, 2020
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  11. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    I am not a doctor but I don't think his condition would have deteriorated like that. He might have retired in 74 or 75 otherwise.

    He took super heavy hits from Shavers, Norton and even though Holmes went easy on him at times, Larry did nail him with hard punchers which did accumulative damage. Plus, the likes of Young, Spinks x 2, Berbick etc, all of these guys were decent to good punchers, plus cumulative damage from sparring sessions in the last few years.
     
    dmt, Apr 10, 2020
    dmt, Apr 10, 2020
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  12. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I had Ali edging Shavers, but a very close fight that could have gone either way imo.
     
    Bokaj, Apr 10, 2020
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  13. andrewe

    andrewe Ezekiel 33 banned Full Member

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    Yes, but not by as much
     
    andrewe, Apr 10, 2020
    andrewe, Apr 10, 2020
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  14. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You can always argue that Lewis would beat Ali prime for prime, but in terms of what they actually did Ali is streets ahead. However you look at it. Wins over fellow ATGs, number of wins over top ranked opponents, number of wins for the undisputed title, undefeated in his prime...
     
    Bokaj, Apr 10, 2020
    Bokaj, Apr 10, 2020
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  15. dmt

    dmt Hardest hitting hw ever Full Member

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    agreed

    Although for the record, I don't see Lewis beating Ali prime for prime. The size advantage is moot. Lewis had tough fights with shorter fighters like Mercer and aging Holyfield, both of whom were shorter than Ali and had shorter reaches.

    In a 12 round fight, the 1967 Ali dances circles around him and lands at will. Ali's work rate in a 12 round fight will be too high and he possesses hand and foot speed that Lewis has never seen before.

    Lewis's size is a disadvantage vs Ali, not an advantage.

    Ali wins a pretty one sided decision here.
     
    dmt, Apr 10, 2020
    dmt, Apr 10, 2020
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