If Ali retires after Manilla (which is what should have happened), is he still considered #1 all time at heavyweight? His resume would include: Liston x 2 Frazier x 2 Foreman Lyle Norton Quarry x 2 Bonavena Patterson x 2 Bugner x 2 Mac Foster
Yes. He would lose some good wins in young, lyle,shavers and spinks plus being 3 times hw champion but he would not lose against the stupid guy and trevor berbick
For doing his job? Berbick did his job too. He was a stupid because he acted like an idiot not for beating old Ali
Nothing he did after Manilla really strenghtened his argument as GOAT HW. The wins over Young, Norton and Shavers could just as well all be losses.
For his health I wished he had stopped after Manila. I don't really think the fights after Manila affect his legacy one way or the other. He did enough beforehand to be considered the GOAT. I really wish we could have seen what would have happened without the 3.5 year layoff.
I am not a doctor but I don't think his condition would have deteriorated like that. He might have retired in 74 or 75 otherwise. He took super heavy hits from Shavers, Norton and even though Holmes went easy on him at times, Larry did nail him with hard punchers which did accumulative damage. Plus, the likes of Young, Spinks x 2, Berbick etc, all of these guys were decent to good punchers, plus cumulative damage from sparring sessions in the last few years.
You can always argue that Lewis would beat Ali prime for prime, but in terms of what they actually did Ali is streets ahead. However you look at it. Wins over fellow ATGs, number of wins over top ranked opponents, number of wins for the undisputed title, undefeated in his prime...
agreed Although for the record, I don't see Lewis beating Ali prime for prime. The size advantage is moot. Lewis had tough fights with shorter fighters like Mercer and aging Holyfield, both of whom were shorter than Ali and had shorter reaches. In a 12 round fight, the 1967 Ali dances circles around him and lands at will. Ali's work rate in a 12 round fight will be too high and he possesses hand and foot speed that Lewis has never seen before. Lewis's size is a disadvantage vs Ali, not an advantage. Ali wins a pretty one sided decision here.
