If all heavyweight title fights had been 12 rounds...

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by djanders, May 11, 2010.


  1. djanders

    djanders Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'm talking about Queensberry rules here. How might the heavyweight history, from 1885 to the present, have changed? Would Fitzsimmons have ever been champion? Would Willard have beaten Johnson? The possibilities are endless? Or are they?
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It calls for much more speculation than is at first apparent. Things are very very different, but the changes run deeper than that. Johnson, Jeffries, Willard, they all develop different styles in this situation. They all deliver different tactics. No sense arriving at the ring looking to wear a man down over 45 when the bell at the end of 12 decides the winner.

    Hurts my head just to think of unravelling it. Jeffries would be the most interesting subject.
     
  3. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Corbett regains the title from Jeff, and Johnson retains it against Willard. These outcomes are why I do not advocate championship distances greater than 15 rounds, because matches then tend to become contests of endurance rather than boxing superiority. (Could you buy Willard, Chuvalo or Cobb as the GOAT?) Willard did very well defending the title over ten against Moran, but he wasn't going to beat Johnson without the aid of a much longer distance.

    Billy Conn dethrones Louis in 1941, Walcott successfully defends against Marciano, and Charles regains it after Rocky dethrones Walcott in their rematch. Marciano needed a longer distance to dispatch LaStarza.

    What was the scoring after 12 rounds of the FOTC?
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    But under this new system, Jeffries is an aggressive brawling pressure fighter, leaping straight to attack, forcing a massve pace on an opponent, sucking up awful punishment, hoping to tire his man down the straight. He doesn't wait and wait and wait to launch his attack proper. How does old Corbett like that?

    Willard? A brutal mauling fighter, clinching and leaning, pushing, sneaky punches to the body maried to sneaky headbutts, driving his opponent round the ring and crashing into anyone who stands his ground. How does old Johnson like that?
     
  5. Duodenum

    Duodenum Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Over 12 rounds, I think a 33 year old fitness fanatic Corbett can manage this. Jeff would suck up considerably more punishment than he actually did in Coney Island, as Corbett would remain on heightened alert and make Jeff pay for the resultant increased openings.
    That certainly describes nothing Johnson hadn't seen before. He'd gone 20 rounds with Moran less than a year earlier, so I'm satisfied that he would have had few problems if Willard had been scheduled for 12 or ten rounds (as his defenses against Jim Johnson and Al Kaufman were). He beat Pat Lester handily over the championship distance over a decade later. 12 rounds wouldn't have been an issue for him, and that's why he was badgered into accepting 45 rounds as the limit.
     
  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Marciano picks up a loss.
     
  7. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fighter that were well conditioned would have to be quicker starters. Remember that last 3 rds always comes at the end of 12 so fighters that were great over the 15 rd. route were careful to save some energy for the last 3 rd bout.

    I used to run a lot and if I went out and ran 6 miles on a consistant basis and then only had time for a 3mile run, I would be able to pick up the pace and run at a quicker speed unafraid to get tired.

    15 rds is a big difference than 12...I think the question should be asked what happens to the 12 rd guys if they change it back to 15...Heavyweights would have to lose lbs
     
  8. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    This topic comes up now and again in boxing discussions but it really shouldnt, here's why...

    just because a guy was winning after the 12th round in a fight scheduled for 15 or more rounds doesn't mean that he would have won the fight had it been scheduled for 12 rounds. Do I really need to explain why? OK, I guess I do!

    Take the first Louis vs. Conn fight or the first Marciano vs. Walcott fight. Those fights were schedued for 15 rounds and both fighters knew this going in. The only way Conn and Walcott win these fights IMO is if Louis and Marciao are made to believe that they have 15 rounds to get their opponents out of there but Conn and Walcott are allowed to know that the final bell will actually ring after round 12... catch my drift?

    They trained for a 15 round fight! Had the fight been scheuled for 12, their strategy and pace would have been different.

    That's like saying Diosbelys Hurtado would have beat Pernell Whitacker had the fight been scheduled for 10. It's bull****! Sure, Hurtado was ahead after 10 rounds but Whitacker knew he had 2 more rounds to do something. Had it been scheduled for 10, Hurtado may have been stopped in the 9th???

    The Houston Oilers would have played the Cowboys in the Superbowl had the AFC Title game been scheduled for only 1 half. Instead they played 2 halves and allowed the Bills to comeback and win.
     
  9. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    Had the game been scheduled for just the one half... Wright would have come in sooner and the Bills would have probably still won.