If any other Heavyweight Champion retired undefeated.

I don't rate Jeffries down at all for having lost to Jack Johnson. It's a totally meaningless result as far as his overall legacy is concerned.
I'd possibly rate Jeffries above Marciano anyway.

Joe Frazier I don't rate down either, and he probably deserves to be rated above Marciano.

Larry Holmes, had he retired at 48-0, wouldn't be rated any higher.

 

Apart from Larry Holmes retiring at 48-0 I can't think of any fighter who could retire right before their first loss without looking like a career left in midstream. I suppose history would have been kinder to Holmes with an undefeated record. But the fact is, he never truly unified, he never gave rematches and he reigned with splintered titles. He'd still get the same criticisms that impact his legacy now but the difference is that his claim of being unbeaten and untied would likely add rose tints to his legacy as time wore on. So when all is said and done; he'd move up. No doubt about it.

Verdict: He'd be on par or interchangeable with Marciano on top 10 lists more so than he is now.

George Foreman retiring after Norton would leave way too many questions. He was young, powerful and he just dominated two fighters who beat Muhammad Ali who was at the time considered a good champion/great fighter. It wouldn't make sense and his legacy would feel incomplete especially since, unlike Frazier or Tyson he never cleaned out the division.

Verdict: His unbeaten record would still rank him below Marciano.

Joe Frazier had essentially cleaned out the division (something he's never given credit for) and beat Muhammad Ali as the last man standing answering any questions about Joe's ability in the FOTC. He was never expected to lose to George Foreman anyway so if he retired I suppose it wouldn't be as bad. People were getting used to the idea that Joe Frazier was the man to beat in the Heavyweight division and while some regarded as 2nd fight with Ali should take place to settle the score if it never happened and he hung up the gloves I suppose most writers would go to their graves swearing that Frazier would have whipped him again anyway.

Verdict: Walking away without giving Ali the rematch which the public wanted to see would dog his resume. The public would eventually get over it but it would still have him rank below Marciano.

Evander Holyfield retiring right before Riddick Bowe and retiring unbeaten would have made him a smallish heavyweight champ who was lucky to possess "Mike Tyson's" belts by taking the path of least resistance and struggling along the way. He's have no Bowe fights that showed the world his character, no Tyson fights, no Moorer fights, His HW resume would be rather light, lacking both depth and signature wins. I suppose his best win (at Heavyweight) would be either and old George Foreman or and old Larry Holmes. Either way considering how hard Evander had to work to get the respect of the public that he deserved from, leaving with the "0" would do him no justice whatsoever.

Verdict: Evander did more at Heavyweight after his first loss than he did prior to it. He'd rank below Marciano.

Mike Tyson; if there ever was a fighter who had the mystique and aura that Mike Tyson possessed, I suppose I wasn't around or old enough to appreciate it. This was a guy who as a result of significant marketing and exposure was able to showcase his talent and incredible power from the moment his career began. Unlike Foreman or Liston this guy was sending shockwaves so early in his career that there was talk that this guy was going to be the HW champion despite not having an Olympic Medal or background. If Mike Tyson retired after Carl Williams, his career would feel abbreviated given his age but the fact that he cleared out division and unified the titles that Holmes allowed to float around; I'd have a hard time believing that it wouldn't benefit him given the benefit of hindsight. It would feel incomplete but our perception of him would be overwhelmingly positive with the only criticism being that he deprived us of a decade worth of greatness.

Verdict: Tyson's popularity and the fact that he cleared out the division with no real rivals would heal the woulds that public would have from an early Tyson departure. Though some were calling for a Holyfield fight as early as 1989, Evander was never expected to beat Tyson and the calls for a Holyfield would dwindle as time wore on. Tyson was viewed as unbeatable, perception would become reality. He'd rank on par with Marciano on many, many lists.

Riddick Bowe made a name for himself and validated his status as a top fighter when he beat Evander Holyfield. It was his coming out party, he simply couldn't retire without really defending the title. Wouldn't really work with Bowe.

Verdict: It would a case of being over before it even started. Rank well below Marciano.

Micheal Spinks: After beating Holmes he sort of coasted in the HW division biding his time and looking for high profile fights. Tangstad and Cooney were filler opponents. Cooney being a big puncher validated Spinks ability to get in there with a big man who can punch and walk out with his hands raised despite Gerry not being in peak form. The Tyson loss simply destroyed his reputation, undeservedly so I should add. He couldn't retire and expect his "0" to carry any merit as to his ability at Heavyweight. He had a brief stint, he needed more fights at HW for it to carry any merit.

Verdict: As it stand he doesn't really rate at Heavyweight, avoided Tyson and heading for the hills wouldn't really do him any justice. He'd sitll rank below Marciano.

Micheal Moorer Beating Evander Holyfield in his prime has to count for something, but if he retired after the first fight with Holyfield his "0" wouldn't carry any weight. At all.

Verdict: Same with Riddick Bowe.

Leon Spinks: He won the title on his 8th fight. No explanation necessary.

Muhammad Ali: Retiring before the FOTC would leave out a significant part of his work out. While Ali was never really a "Liston" "Foreman" or "Tyson" he was increasingly becoming more and more appreciated reluctantly. His 2 wins over Liston have asterick's, his win over Patterson, Chuvalo, Williams, Folley would all be given serious clout but Ali's greatness was solidified if not enhanced by what he did in the 70s. Without his wins over Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Lyle, Shavers, etc his legacy would not carry the same weight. He'd likely be top a top 10 HW especially since he was beating all contenders put in his path. He'd be considered chinny, and his mental toughness would likely be questioned. He'd be somewhat of an enigma, he was the unconventional Heavyweight Champion who fought like no other fighter before him had. In all likelihood he'd be grossly underrated today; Legacywise and H2H.

Verdict: Though arguments could be made that his resume up to had better signature wins FOTC carried more depth than Maricano's; The Rock's 49 fight streak would carry the day. In all likelihood, the consensus would have him just below Marciano.

 

Rocky Marciano has to go down as the 'Greatest' not only as a boxer and
champion, but also for not 'selling out'.
He could have reaped in an easy couple of Million for coming back against
Floyd Patterson
Ingemar Johannson
Muhammad Ali

And no one would have discredited his effort.

He didn't go for the easy 'money grab' and allow himself or the name of boxing
to be embarrassed.
His time was over, and he was comfortable with that.
Unlike the 'shills and snakes' that we have witnessed over the years.

 

I wouldn't say the he would go down as the greatest but I do think he'd go down (at least professionally) with dignity.

 

:good wonderful post!

 

Thanks la-califa and choklab.

I actually started a new thread inspired by this....

 

I don't believe in blanket statements like that. The two fought one time. Ali won. That doesn't mean for a second that had they fought 2-3 more times that the outcome would still be a guaranteed Ali win. Even though Foreman fought with a poor ring IQ that night, he still put plenty of punishment on Ali. A rematch or possible trilogy would've been in no way certain victories for Muhammad.

 

Just an outside thought.
What would have happened if Larry Holmes won a decision over
Michael Spinks in the first fight.

Would he have retired, and stop at 49-0.
That would have been a 'class act' move.

I personally thought he won by one round, but,,,,,,,,,,