If B-HOP had done this...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by yesihavearm, Oct 22, 2007.


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  1. yesihavearm

    yesihavearm Active Member Full Member

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    I currently have Bernard Hopkins at around 40-50 ATG status.

    Where would you put Bernard Hopkins if he had:

    Not had that early loss in his career.
    Beaten Roy Jones in a re-match somewhere around 1998-2002.
    Not lost to Jermain Taylor but had beaten him twice.

    Top 30 ATG ?

    What if he had also beaten Calzaghe at SMW, and moves up and beats one of the HW champs ? 4 Divison world champion.

    Top 10-20 ATG ? Best Middleweight ever ?

    Thoughts.
     
    yesihavearm, Oct 22, 2007
    yesihavearm, Oct 22, 2007
    #1
  2. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    The debut loss doesn't matter really. The losses that bookend his 160 reign mean there's no way he can ever be rated #1 at middleweight, especially as neither were avenged...and he failed in his second attempt also.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Oct 22, 2007
    My dinner with Conteh, Oct 22, 2007
    #2
  3. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    1st loss means nothing

    his loss against roy jones, his draw with secundo mercado, and his 2 losses to jermain taylor hurt his legacy
     
    PH|LLA, Oct 22, 2007
    PH|LLA, Oct 22, 2007
    #3
  4. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    It's a tough call.

    Jones moved up, so avenging the loss against him at 160 was an impossibility. That said, if Hopkins beats Jones sometime in the future, deserving or not, that may help escalate Hopkins.

    As it now stands, having beaten two of Jones's conquerers in Tarver and Johnson helps his case.

    So, too, does the fact most observers feel he deserved the nod in his rematch with Taylor.

    I'm not sure those losses do anything which terribly taints his legacy.
     
    Rumsfeld, Oct 22, 2007
    Rumsfeld, Oct 22, 2007
    #4
  5. PH|LLA

    PH|LLA VIP Member Full Member

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    yea but imagine Hopkins' legacy without those losses.
     
    PH|LLA, Oct 22, 2007
    PH|LLA, Oct 22, 2007
    #5
  6. Asterion

    Asterion Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Greatest Middleweight of all time.

    Top20 P4P of all time.
     
    Asterion, Oct 22, 2007
    Asterion, Oct 22, 2007
    #6
  7. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, it would do quite a bit for it. Point taken!
    :cheers

    However, I still don't believe the blemishes on his record do much to undermine his greatness.

    One has to wonder, what would have happened had Hopkins got the nod in the Taylor rematch as I believe he deserved? Rubber-match? If so, is that worth more than his dominant win against Tarver and his one-sided exhibition against Winky?
     
    Rumsfeld, Oct 22, 2007
    Rumsfeld, Oct 22, 2007
    #7
  8. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    The greatest middleweight of all-time my arse.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Oct 22, 2007
    My dinner with Conteh, Oct 22, 2007
    #8
  9. yesihavearm

    yesihavearm Active Member Full Member

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    He's saying he would be, having done all the things i mentioned in my first post.


    Aint you the one posting Roy Jones at prime was unbeatable in another thread ? my arse.
     
    yesihavearm, Oct 22, 2007
    yesihavearm, Oct 22, 2007
    #9
  10. brooklyn1550

    brooklyn1550 Roberto Duran Full Member

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    Probably 2nd at middleweight all time and in the top 20 pound for pound
     
    brooklyn1550, Oct 22, 2007
    brooklyn1550, Oct 22, 2007
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  11. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ahhh...now the agenda is clear.

    So tell us the reasons Jones ducked the rematch by offering 60-40 to Hopkins. Who then turned it down to fight for less money than he would have made fighting Jones?
     
    kg0208, Oct 22, 2007
    kg0208, Oct 22, 2007
    #11
  12. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    :lol:

    Likewise, why did RJJ turn down a career high payday against Michaczewski in 1997?
     
    Rumsfeld, Oct 22, 2007
    Rumsfeld, Oct 22, 2007
    #12
  13. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Show me the proof of the offer and the terms. If the fight was set for Germany, then you have your answer. If it was a career high payday and set in the states, then Jones ducked him. Simple as that.

    BTW, Jones offered DM a shot over here that was a career high (DM was making 2-3 million a fight in Germany) and DM turned it down as well.
     
    kg0208, Oct 22, 2007
    kg0208, Oct 22, 2007
    #13
  14. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Er, no.
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Oct 22, 2007
    My dinner with Conteh, Oct 22, 2007
    #14
  15. Rumsfeld

    Rumsfeld Moderator Staff Member

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    I had seen it in a couple of places at the time, one that sticks out was on Pedro Fernandez's column.

    RJJ was offered $10 million to fight DM in Germany, and at the time, I believ RJJ had never made in excess of $10 million for any one fight.

    At that time, DM was consistently making more money than RJJ.
     
    Rumsfeld, Oct 22, 2007
    Rumsfeld, Oct 22, 2007
    #15
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