If BJ is a BJJ black belt, why does he not submit people off his back?

my knowledge of bjj is limited, but thank you.

I find submissions very exiting in a similar way to a ko, you set it up then bammm!

 

:rofl:rofl:hammertime

 

:rofl you site one guy who currently fights in a crap league.

I have provided plenty of evidence to show I am correct. You on the other hand have failed to provide a shred of evidence I am wrong.

:rofl you haven't even successfully argued your point at all.

you see, their is not point to this, but you have succeded in hijacking this thread.

To disprove my point you're going to first have to actually understand and argue against it. You're severely failing in that area.atsch

It answers why bj (and the vast majority of the others), the bjj black belt, can't submit people with his black belt bjj anymore.

 

Explain Chael Sonnen's career then? Not just the Silva fight, where he lost to a high level BJJ fighter, but all of his other losses to high level BJJ fighters, who he would clearly have beaten if they did not have extremely good BJJ skills?

He clearly showed he has all the tools to be champion, but high level BJJ has shut him down against Horn (twice), Babalu, Maia, and Silva, fighters he would murder according to your theory? If BJJ still didn't have the ability to at least occasionally shut down dominant wrestlers, and make no mistake Chael is second only to maybe GSP, then he would basically be undefeated.

It takes high QUALITY, not necessarily high complexity.

 

Well said. :good

 

No I am not, I am not even close to doing that. Stop hitting straw men and making up an argument that I never even made.

I said drilling a basic move to near perfection, its still going to be a basic move. Doesn't matter how good you're doing it, how fast you do it, it's still a basic move. A jab is still a jab, no matter how fast you throw it or how hard you throw it, it is still a jab.

Again, all basic stuff just drilled to near perfection. A jab thrown in a split second is still just a jab, which is the first punch someone learns in boxing. Just because someone slaps on a basic submission move really fast doesn't mean anything. So you're saying that because he slapped in on really fast and adjusted it to make it tighter it suddenly became a new move? is that what you're saying? what move is it then? what move did it suddenly become? so if someone throws a fast jab, what punch does it become? does it change from a jab to an entirely differnt punch? no it doesn't, it's still a jab, just like andersons submission is still a triangle.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said learning high-level moves means you're at a high level, I said mid to high level bjj is useless in mma. Get it right. If you're going to argue against my point, argue against hte point I made, not a straw man of your own creation.

 

I guess you're way too clueless to grasp similarities between 2 different sports huh? I guess you're way to clueless to understand someone using examples and analogies to illustrate a point and I guess you're way to clueless to grasp the fact that these analogies and examples don't always have to be from the same sport. Wow, what grade did you drop out of school in?

Who said anything about high level wrestling? trying to steer the topic away from bjj cuz you're too cluseless to actually argue the point at hand? you're a joke.

 

He got submitted with BASIC LEVEL BJJ, which is what I've been saying this entire thread. Basic level bjj is all you need to be successful in the mma and mid-high level bjj is useless. Sonnen was submitted by BASIC LEVEL BJJ so it proves my point even more. Thanks for helping my argument. :good

That was not high level bjj :rofl every single submission he lost too (armbars, triangles, guillotine choke, etc.) was a BASIC LEVEL BJJ SUBMISSION, not high level bjj, basic bjj, so you have strengthened my argument. Thanks again :good

 

Considered everything he said proved my point, I would say so. Thanks for cosigning what he said, its too bad you didn't grasp the fact that what he said proved my point before you cosigned it huh? :rofl

 

Basic moves, not basic level. The level is all about execution. Those were perfectly executed and could not be done by non-high level BJJ fighters.

Flashy does not equal high level. Positive results = high level

 

What is "high level" BJJ to you? If you think it is flashy moves, you are wrong.

 

Semantics, in this conversation, was definitely a major problem. It took me couple of posts to understand what he meant by "high level/basic level".

 

Sorry, but that's exactly what you're saying when you call Silva's sub BASIC LEVEL BJJ. It's not. Silva's sub was a BASIC MOVE. A basic move is not the same as basic level bjj.

For example, Kobe Bryant uses basic moves like a lay-up to score in the NBA against elite competition. Using your logic, since a basic move [lay-up or triangle choke] works against the competition, all you need are basic level skills to be successful at that sport[pro basketball or MMA]...:blood Does that make any sense? No b/c it's their high level skill that allows someone like Kobe or Silva to use basic moves effectively against their competition.

No one's saying it's a different move. Drilling something over & over just means that you perfect the form & execution. That doesn't mean that you can do it when someone's resisting or trying to stop you.

Do you think being highly skilled at a sport changes the effectiveness of any moves you learned when you first started that sport?

Fine... respond to the two points I made about Kobe & skill vs. effectiveness.