If both Ali/Liston fights were fixed, how would it affect Sonny's and Ali's legacies?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by cross_trainer, Aug 7, 2022.

  1. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Assume both Ali/Liston bouts were fixed.

    How does that affect the legacies of both men? Where do you rank them if you find absolute proof the fights were fixed?
     
  2. billyb71

    billyb71 Member Full Member

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    Tough question.
    I hold Liston several notches higher than most people because I think Walcott was paid to rig Lewiston for Ali.
    Liston is in my top 3 or 4.
    If Ali was in on any fixes, it would lower him from my #1 spot to 7 or 8.
     
  3. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Muhammad Ali and Sonny Liston were extremely talented with their own physical talents. But if it was proven that there was some Funny Business related to the underworld, I believe that there would have been question marks relating to the fight itself and speculation who would have actually won. Let's not interject the modern heavies as we are solely taking about this very interesting subject. Yes I do believe it might hurt the legacies of both fighters, there would be no level fair fighting field. Why I say no interjection of modern fighters is that every time we discuss a topic such as this, some young poster points out that Fury or Uzyk could have beaten both, those fighters have a place called The General Forum, this is The Classic Forum. We are discussing a fight filled with intrigue and possible fraud to the fight fans from 1964 and 1965, before many were born.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
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  4. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    I think it would hurt Sonny as well, if you think about it.

    If the title fights with Ali were fixed...what else was?
     
  5. Holmes77

    Holmes77 Member Full Member

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    With Ali depends on if more of his fights are proven to be fixed before I drop him. Cause if there not he still has a very impressive resume. Liston I would maybe lower a notch or 2 cause he does not have the resume compared to Ali. And I sorta already think there was a fix at least in the 2nd fight. So that’s factored in my rankings now.

    I truly believe this is sorta like DB Cooper we will never know for sure what happened
     
  6. billyb71

    billyb71 Member Full Member

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    I feel like we will finally know what happened. Ali has kids, Liston has kids, Walcott has kids, Resnick and other mobsters have kids. All it would take is for one of them to start talking.
     
  7. AwardedSteak863

    AwardedSteak863 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't believe for a second that the first fight was fixed. Liston was absolutely trying to win that fight but he had never met a guy that was as big as him that could box like Ali. I do believe he underestimated Ali and then quit in his corner.

    As for the second fight, I do believe he was in the bag. I just don't know who for.
     
  8. ThatOne

    ThatOne Well-Known Member Full Member

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    This has been gone over so many times. Liston said he could get up but since Ali was acting like a crazy man and didn't go to a neutral corner he was afraid Ali would wallop him as he tried to get up.
     
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  9. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Not to mention Blinky Palermo and Frankie Carbo were very dangerous underworld figures, they controlled Sonny Liston.
     
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  10. Fourth_Horseman

    Fourth_Horseman Member Full Member

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    Someone would have spilled the beans on this by now. Hard to debate an issue where there is no evidence for pro or con.
     
  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The FBI literally said they found proof the 2nd fight was fixed.
     
  12. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    How would this make him any higher? He still took a first round knockdown and there is no evidence he could have gotten up and won't he fight. How does anything in the fight make him go up a few notches?
     
  13. Fourth_Horseman

    Fourth_Horseman Member Full Member

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    What came of the FBI's evidence?
    Nothing because the FBI is known to be the paragons of honesty and truth. As Don King, I can attest that the only thing they are good at is blackmail because they got me at least a couple of times. Rev Sharpton was the snitch and according to rumors, he was given an old Cadillac, two thousand dollars, and a bucket of KFC chicken.
     
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2022
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  14. billyb71

    billyb71 Member Full Member

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    Liston did get up. He wasn't counted out because Walcott never gave him a count. He couldn't get Ali to stay in a neutral corner. Liston wasn't out. He did not lose. Walcott made a major blunder. I think he knew what he was doing. I think he was paid to rig the fight.
     
  15. catchwtboxing

    catchwtboxing Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes, but I will ask the question again...how does this bump him up a couple of notches in history? He still had a loss to Ali on the record?
     
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