If both retired today who is ranked higher Riddick Bowe or Vitali K?

The one thing I have always, ALWAYS praised the Klits for is their conditioning, you won't ever hear me slate either of them for their insane preparation. Had Bowe had the same dedication then he'd have ruled for years (if he'd have gotten past an equally dedicated Buster Douglas )

But the fact remains...a fully fit, focused, dedicated VITLAY has 2 unavenged defeats, one to a former middleweight and one to a near 38 year old who was on his last legs. Any other GREAT champion would have beaten the 38 year old, I'd give VITLAY a pass on the Byrd fight as it seems it was a genuine injury even though I still believe a 'great' fighter would have toughed it out to protect his 0.

 

Watch it again, right now. After that uppercut VITLAY did virtually nothing but hold on for the rest of the round.

Glad you like my avatar dude, I have no beef with you personally but you're wrong on this one, watch the fight. REALLY watch it - VITLAY was all over the place at the end of that 6th round. Lewis was tired yes I won't deny that, but VITLAY was concussed, big difference there.

 

CBF at the moment, Im all boxing-talked out. Anyone that thinks Im a Klit fan/white supremacist couldnt be further from the truth, I've been one of Lewis' biggest fans for like 15 years.
Ill have a look this evening when Im home

Thing is also, concussion you recover from quickly, but fatigue you dont, if VK was concussed and still landing heavy shots after the uppercut, what was he going to when he got his head back?
Ill have a look later :!:

 

When the second best fighter you ever beat is a toss-up between Herbie Hide and Pierre Coetzer, talk of being an all time great should be speculative at best.

 

No ****, actually I youtubed Hide/Bowe yesterday, Hide was really quite good, hilariuosly bad chin but speed and boxing ability pretty dam good. A pity about that chin though

 

You've only been here since June of 2009....


That's how internet forums are.. Imagine how many times this fight has been discussed before your arrival, and just think about the number of future discussions....

 

Avenging the Byrd fight would have been a pointless exercise, other than to have it on the record. He dominated the bout up till the injury that you agree was genuine.

And how could he avenge Lewis when Lewis refused to rematch him, despite answering Larry Merchant's question ("Will you give him a rematch ?") with

"yeah, you know, if the money's right, definitely."

Well the money was certainly right. It would have been his biggest purse ever.

How much would it have hurt Lennox's legacy had Rahman retired as champ without giving him a rematch ?

The thirty-eight years was not the issue. Lennox came late to pro-boxing and peaked late. He was still close to prime and was planning to fight a bit longer before he faced Klitschko. He took close to a year after the fight to decide to retire.

And having one real loss in a competitive fight against a man I rank as the number 3 or 4 alltime greatest HW is hardly a huge blemish on Vitali's career.


I believe he's easily ahead of Bowe.

 

The fact is an injury and a cut, not ring ability vs two former wold champions is the reason for defeat....and don't try to pretend that Vitali did not seek out re-matches! It was Lewis and Byrd, who said no thanks.

Also how can you be focused if you took both fights on two weeks?

Do you even know what goes on in a camp, Fight Weight? Most fighters like to do heavy sparring and cut it off a few days before the fight. If you take a world championship fight on less than 2 weeks notice, you can't pick ideal sparring partners, and can't get in the quality sparring.

 

atsch


I guess you missed my point that you could make the same shallow argument against Golota before he faced Bowe. But yes you are absolutely right, Vitali never faced Bowe so he couldn't very well demonstrate movement against him. Your boxing anaylsis skills are most profound.

Vitali was very comfortable off the back foot against aggressive fighters like Sanders, Johnson, Arreola, Peter, Williams, and Lewis before it turned into an ugly wrestling match. This is a better resume than Golota had going into the Bowe fight. How about Hide, Gonzales, Mathis Jr, or Donald, whom Bowe beat but had considerable trouble closing the gap against? I think this is an interesting match up, regardless who you favor. I just don't have much confidence in Bowe's stalking abilities against a discplined pure boxer like Vitali. Surely, Bowe would be the betting favorite but Vitali would get good odds.

 

Why do you keep bringing up the 2 week excuse as though it only applied to poor old VITLAY? Lewis took the fight on 2 weeks notice too you know....

 

Yes, that fact often gets overlooked too doesn't it I love the way the Klit-ites always come out with "VITLAY has only ever lost to injuries", as though there's any other way to lose a boxing match. If I were a pedantic soul I'd say Lewis only ever lost to injuries too, it's technically correct I guess.

 

Very true.. The Lennox Lewis defeat was a legitimate loss.. No excuses whatsoever. I do not hold the Chris Byrd affair against him as highly as some do though... He was winning that fight in one sided fashion, and none of us have any way of knowing just how badly that torn rotator cuff was hurting him.. It certainly had nothing to do with anything Byrd did to him. I don't like to make excuses for fighters losing, but it kinda sucks that he lost in that fashion..

 

Yep I agree with that post 100%

I would add a TKO by cuts is self-explanatory despite the pathetic excuses of Klit fans. What was so unusual about was that Vitali seemed about to stop to stop Lewis and ended the stronger. That is debatable but its what most media seemed to think at the time, and its how it appears to me.
That was a big cut and if his face was a more typical blunter shape he would not have been cut so seriously, thats not really opinion, more fact.
The sharp angles of his cranium have no reflection on his boxing or physical ability.

Anyway it is what it is, he got stopped, great work Lewis and credit to Vitali for fighting strongly with such a serious cut. I dont see how anyone can deny his true toughness after that. Well both of them, there were still idiots who thought the long-time world heavyweight champ was "soft" too.

 

I rank a legit TKO on cuts as less than a KO but more than a points victory, so there's no question that Vitali's win was a clear legit win.

Another fact some times overlooked is that Klitschko's two losses (if you're going to count the Byrd loss) were to superior opponents than the fighters who beat Lewis.

(Lewis > Bruno and Byrd > Rahman).

What puts lewis clearly ahead here are his wins.