If Brian Nielsen had 2 go through Ali's opponents

The meaning of my last reply was that in Ali's case it was sometimes achieved in different ways than the consensual dive.
Bribing a fighter to throw a fight may be criminal, but what Ali's handlers did was more criminal.

You have some of the evidence in video and its related stories:
Foreman, Lyle, Cooper #1, Liston #1, Liston #2 and probably Bonavena ,Berbick and others too.

And you can read some about it here:
http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=347452

Nielsen was not the first nor the last to have fixed fights.
Langford did too.
People here ignore reality regardless what they see, but Ali had too.
And if someone wants to believe that all of Greb's and WSJ's fights were for real, let them believe in whatever makes them feel better.

 

But it is against Ali's opponents the way they were when they fought him. Not the way they were when and if they fought Liston.

The true Williams was also KOd by an always fragile and undersized Bob Satterfield, or was that a dive too?

He also got floored twice by some Sylvester Jones, losing a decision he got to hear due to the fight's being scheduled for mere 4 rds.

Foreman would have broken Ali down in a real fight too, which is why I left him out of the question.

Frazier in fact beat Ali so he was left outside as well.
Frazier was also cheated against in his rematch with Ali, but recognized "great" fighters have a license to cheat.
Lyle took a dive against Ali, but you will probably come back with some lame explanations to it.

 

It was not uncommon in his days to participate in fixed fights.
Jack Johnson did, Stanley Ketchell did, Sam Langford did.
I am not even interested much about this almost unfilmed era, but it is obvious to me that it was the same form of cheap entertainment then as it was later and is today, just with even less regulation and less public exposure which made these things even easier.

Also William Dempsey took PEDs which made him more tenacious, which probably help to explain Greb too.

Now there should be an explanation to Greb's numerically inflated record, and a part of it can be explained by him having his sparring sessions on record and on payroll.
He probably was 1 of the best of his era, since sparring sessions mean something too.

It is easy to claim: "innocent until shown otherwise", but some things are obvious.
I might be wrong about Greb, but "suspect until shown otherwise" is not any worse than "innocent until shown otherwise".

Also Greb's opponents are made to be more than their true worth was.
They were mostly cheap entertainers remembered as super heroes, because the evidence for truth was only ever known to very few, was often never filmed in first place or was lost to time.
What is retained are newspaper reports which were always meant to seem interesting and to draw future attention to their subjects, because they were their source of income.

How often was it to read: "Greb showed an inability to crack an egg and only slapped his $h!t opponent while escaping harm's way"

So there are explanations to Greb's resume, and if all truth was known, it would have been found just not what you try to make it seem to be.
Also his stoppage rate is pathetic as it is, so if there were dives in his case they were softer dives than the lay down type, so even if his fights were all for real which would make him an exception (and therefore should raise suspicions) for his time, I think I already explained his record here.

 

Even from the beginning Lyle did not fight like his true form which was on display vs Foreman and Shavers.
Then he suddenly took a further step off the gas, letting Ali tee on him, which signed for the referee: "Now do your part of the deal".

Regarding Cleveland Williams this thread is about fighting Ali's opponent in their form they were against Ali and not against other people.
My last reply to you was that even the real Cleveland Williams, whom Ali never fought could still be destroyed by opponents usually considered outside of top 90 all time.